[Smt-talk] Classical Form and Recursion
Panayotis Mavromatis
pm68 at nyu.edu
Wed Mar 25 11:20:03 PDT 2009
Hi Dmitri,
On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Dmitri Tymoczko wrote:
> I think discussions of the issue of recursion could stand to pay
> more attention to the distinction between intrinsic structure and
> our psychological organization of a structure.
One important distinction must be made: recursive vs non- recursive
is a property of the grammar (i.e. the model), not of the corpus.
Any finite corpus can be modeled with a non-recursive grammar, even
if it contains strings like
ABCDCBA
This is because, if the corpus is finite, you'll never have to deal
with infinite depth of recursion. Of course, if recursive structures
keep occurring with high frequency and at deep levels of embedding,
it will be rather forced and unnatural to insist on a non-recursive
model. The real question therefore becomes one of the model's
economy, explanatory power, ability to relate to other disciplines
(e.g. cognition) etc.
To summarize, in my mind recursive vs non-recursive is a question of
model selection, not a question of what the music is intrinsically.
For example, if you claim that Roman numeral progressions can be
modeled quite adequately using a non-recursive finite-state model,
you are explicitly or implicitly making certain model-selection
commitments. More specifically, you systematically avoid
interpretations of the corpus that involve higher levels of
embedding, such as
( ( ( ( (I ii V I) ii V I) ii V I) ii V I) ii V I) ii V I
and instead claim that an interpretation of
I (ii V I) (ii V I) (ii V I) (ii V I) (ii V I) (ii V I)
is just as good. In other words, you are making modeling choices by
balancing qualities such as model simplicity vs goodness-of-fit to
the data. ("If a complex model only gives us minor improvements in
accuracy over a simpler one, we might as well just go with the
simpler model.")
These are all modeling decisions which can be ultimately quite
subjective. Even if not everybody agrees on a single set of model
selection criteria, at least these criteria have to be made explicit,
and it is precisely these criteria that we should be debating.
Best,
Panos
% ===================================================
% Panayotis Mavromatis
% Music Theory Director, Music and Performing Arts
% The Steinhardt School, New York University
% 35 West 4th Street, Room 777
% New York, NY 10012
% Phone: (212) 998-5287
% http://theory.smusic.nyu.edu/pm
% ===================================================
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