[Smt-talk] digression: pulse

[Michael Morse]

 I'm starting to feel a little like Statler and Waldorf on the Muppet Show here; but if what we're talking about is pulse, why treat it as a matter of perception--which implies externality, no?--at all? Pulse is not merely internalized (and thus operative thereafter), it can be generated without any perceptual stimuli whatsoever. That characteristic is essential, isn't it? Put another way: pulse perception is a subcategory of the phenomenon of pulse or, if you prefer, of pulse motor activity. No? What am I missing here? 
MW MorseTrent UniversityPeterborough, Oshawa


Thanks, Justin. The next questions would be whether there is motor activity that directly corresponds to the 2 coinciding pulsations that, according to a current formulation, are necessary for metrical perception/cognition, how soon this motor activity arises, and how long it persists in the absence of directly corresponding acoustical onsets.  


Jay Rahn, York University (Toronto)

To paraphrase Arnie, you can't taste a pumpkin pie without smelling it, and analogously you can't have meter perception (at least according to most theories of timing) without activation of the motor regions of the brain, whether or not there is overt activity.  So you don't need to eat the pie or tap your toe.  And this is a low-level percept that occurs before one's imagination and cognition are involved, as (some of) the output of the auditory nerves & vestibular systems goes directly into the motor regions of the basal
 ganglia, putamen, et al (Jessica Grahn's work is relevant here).  So I would say "yes" to Jay's query, with the understanding that activation of the sensorimotor regions can occur prior to either overt motor behavior or higher-level imagery/imagination.
Cheers,Justin

On Oct 26, 2011, at 12:07 AM, JAY RAHN wrote:Can there be metrical perception without motor activity?
Perhaps in the way that one can smell pumpkin pie without eating it (arguably something crucial would be missing).
It might help to distinguish motor imagery from motor activity, even if there might be a continuum between the two.
  While metric perception without overt activity may be common for some people, the notion of perception without at least motor *imagery* is inconsistent with findings such as those in Chen, Penhune, and Zatorre (2008; below). 
>From another direction, if I may conflate meter and rhythm for a moment, consider Christopher Hasty's remarks on rhythmic experience:  "Something...attracts and holds our attention.  We follow the event or observe the object with interest.  Rhythm in this sense implies participation and sympathy" (Meter As Rhythm, p. 12).  I take this participation and sympathy to be at least partly motor-related, and I take the perceptual act of *entrainment* (Justin London, Hearing in Time) to be consistent with this.  Perception of rhythm and meter then involve either imagined or overt actions that are congruent with the pattern of sounds.  On this view, "improvisatory"
 passages are distinguished not merely as patterns of sounds but as patterns of either imagined or performed actions.  One might want to say *of course* this is the case, but I'm not sure to what extent this is reflected in the vocabulary and rhetoric of our discipline.
Arnie CoxAssoc. Prof. of Music TheoryOberlin Conservatory
Chen, J.L., Penhune, V.B.,
and Zatorre, R.J. 2008. Listening to Musical Rhythms Recruits Motor Regions of
the Brain. Cerebral Cortex 18,
2844-2854.


On Oct 26, 2011, at 12:07 AM, JAY RAHN wrote:Mitch Ohriner and Eliot Handelman refer to motor activity (tapping and conducting) with regard to metre. Can there be metrical perception without motor activity? E.g., can one hear (or even imagine) pairs of onsets as time-intervallically the same without an intervening motor response?
Jay Rahn, York University    

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*************************************************Justin LondonAffiliated Researcher, Centre for Music and Science, University of CambridgeProfessor of Music (and other stuff), Carleton CollegeDepartment of MusicOne North College St.Northfield, MN 55057 USA507-222-4397fax 507-222-5561jlondon at carleton.edu




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