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<div>Hi David: Your questions conflate a number of separate issues, which could take many pages to unpack. Here's some brief responses....</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite">My original "I wonder" thought was whether composition teachers are trained in pedagogy regarding the music education sense of the word. </blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure that you mean by "the music education sense of the word." Most composers don't begin formal studies in composition until college (except for a few who are fortunate to have stumbled upon a teacher earlier in their training). Most college teachers of music in any aspect of the field (except for music education) don't have training in pedagogy in the "music education sense of the word." </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite">Are teaching techniques instilled by composition teachers to future teachers of composition? </blockquote><br></div><div>This question begs a larger issue: Most college-level studio teachers who train future performers (who will in turn become future studio teachers) don't specifically teach performance pedagogy within the context of their studio lessons. Composition lessons are analogous to performance studio lessons in this regard. The primary purpose of composition lessons isn't to teach pedagogy; it's to teach craft and creativity. One can glean much about pedagogy from one's own teachers along the way, but performance and/or composition lessons rarely focus on pedagogy.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite">Can they communicate the best ways to teach someone how to write a fugue? </blockquote><div><br></div><div>What does this have to do with composition pedagogy? It's more relevant to a course in counterpoint. Of course, traditional tonal compositional techniques do play some role in the training of composers, but it's just one small portion of their training. There's a wide spectrum of beliefs about the relationship between traditional theory and learning how to compose, with a large percentage of composers seeing little direct relationship between the two. </div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite">What are some creative ways to teach orchestration so composers can learn to associate different instruments/families with different timbres. </blockquote><div><br></div><div>Most any music school has courses in Orchestration. Of course, many composers learn this own their own, by score study and listening. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><br>In my opinion, more colleges need to include some form of composition pedagogy in their curricula. </blockquote><div><br></div><div>I teach at the Crane School of Music, one of the first and largest music educator training programs in the country. I am also on our state-wide music education committee for composition programs in our public schools. So, even though I have no background (or degrees) in music education per se (i.e. all of my majors were in composition/theory), I have a pretty good understanding of the current interest in teaching composition in public school curricula. </div><div><br></div><div>My sense is that the whole purpose of including composition in music education in the public schools (and, by extension, in college core curricula) is NOT that we're trying to train more people to be composers. Rather, studying composition is a way to develop better understanding of music in general through application, as well as creative problem solving, unlocking one's creative potential, etc. So, while you're correct that more college programs for music educators need to include more training of composition pedagogy in their music ed programs, it's a different approach to composition pedagogy (with different end goals) than the type of pedagogy one might need if one was planning to teach college-level composition students who want to become professional composers. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><br>1. Who is responsible for teaching composers to teach composition--comp professors or music ed professors? Comp professors can rightfully claim that it's their area of expertise. Music ed professors are trained to help future teachers learn how to teach. Does that include composition teachers? Or, could it be a hybrid of both...a collaboration? </blockquote><div><br></div><div>See my responses above. The same questions/distinctions apply to music performance studios, not just composition. Should class piano (functional keyboard) be taught by the same people who teach piano studio for piano majors? Should music ed professors who teach in the band track be giving the clarinet studio lessons to performance majors? Why should composition studio be considered any differently?</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite">2. Who should take this course--theory/comp majors and/or music ed majors? </blockquote><div><br></div><div>See my response above.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"></blockquote><br></div><div>I hope that this answers some of your questions, and begins to unpack some of the issues that you conflated. </div><div><br></div><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; ">...Paul<br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ; font-size: 12px; "><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ; font-size: 12px; "><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">**************************************************************</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Dr. Paul A. Siskind<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span></span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span></span></span></span></span>Home:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Professor of Composition and Theory<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span></span></span></span></span>Sweet Child Music</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The Crane School of Music, SUNY-Potsdam<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span></span></span></span>69 N. Main Street</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Potsdam, NY 13676<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span></span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span></span></span></span></span>Norwood, NY 13668</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(315) 267-3241<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span></span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span></span></span></span></span>(315) 353-2389</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">**************************************************************</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span></span> </div><br></body></html>