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<font size="-1"><font face="Georgia">Dear Ildar,</font></font><br>
<br>
Ildar Khannanov a écrit :
<blockquote cite="mid:685663.13209.qm@web45009.mail.sp1.yahoo.com"
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<div>I apologize for being a bit straighforward with my
definition of D, S, and T. Mine is not an absolute view.</div>
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There is no need to apologize, and I do not mean "absolute" in any
disparaging or contemptuous way. The absolute view of harmonic
functions is the very common one for which the function resides in the
chord itself; the relative view places it in the interchordal relation.
This is an old story, which Robert Wason adequately described (in <i>Viennese
Harmonic Theory</i>) when he wrote that "unlike German theory, which
was preoccupied with chord quality and direct relation of chords to a
tonal center by harmonic processes, the Viennese theory was concerned
primarily with the allowable progression of the fundamental bass and
the <i>interpretation</i> of chords in relation to local contexts of
progression" (p. xiii).<br>
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<div>[...] However, there must be the way out of this cercle.
Ths is why I suggested that Tonic is Tonic because it is Tonic.
Dominant is Dominant, even if in many cases it is left unresolved
(Wagner/Scriabin). I side with Dmitri on the exigency of multiple
sources. He calls it compatibilism, I use heterogeneite and
multiplicite. And the history of music shows us that the origins of our
concepts are multiple.</div>
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Indeed. And, even more, the history of music shows that there is place
for competing, complementary views. I do not claim that functions
certainly reside in interchordal relations, I merely said that this is
my present way of looking at the matter. I feel all the more authorized
to do so that I know that others view the matter otherwise: together,
we may approach a necessarily heterogenous and multiple image to
represent such a complex matter.<br>
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<div>In this sense, I see no problems identifying l'accord
parfait not necessarly by its placement in the environment of other
chords, but as a sort of religious-philosophical construct, pure
perfection. This is how French textbooks define it: it is a combination
of a perfect fifth and a third.</div>
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I would not consider French textbooks as models, especially on this
point. I mentioned before what I consider a typical French excessive
absolutism, consisting in bestowing a function on a chord merely
because of its form: I mentioned the case of Jean Barraqué reading a V<sup>7</sup>/Eb
in bar 5 of the <i>Prelude à L'Après-midi d'un faune</i> and, even
worse, deducing from there a tonality of Eb ! (see my <i>Music
Analysis </i>paper, vol. 21/2, p. 168). For a similar reason, some of
my students hear German sixths not as altered V/V, but as V/bII !<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:685663.13209.qm@web45009.mail.sp1.yahoo.com"
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<div>As for tonal spaces, regions and placement of chords, do
we realize that we are dealing with poetic metaphors here? [...] What
you mean by tonal space is technical description of a playing surface
(again very different on many instruments and non-existent in voice)
and the paper and ink plane. As if Heidegger did not spent his life
struggling with visual metaphors as a substitution in the question of
Being and Husserl did not fight with transplanting terms from one
scientific jargon to another. </div>
<div>[...] </div>
<div>Let us continue using visual metaphors, but let us also be
cautious of their poetic-metaphoric character (I nod to Michael
Spitzer).</div>
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But, Idlar, don't you think that the idea of tonal function itself is
metaphoric? As is that of recursion, by the way...<br>
<br>
One point about which many of us agree (on SMT-talk, at least; I have
more problems about that with my French colleagues ;-) is the necessity
to to take voice leading in account in our descriptions of harmony and
tonality. However, to deal with harmony and voice leading together is a
tricky matter. The visual metaphor of the <i>Tonnetz</i> proved rather
effective, but it may lead to excesses (I find the idea of tonal space
somewhat excessive). Another metaphor with the same purpose, with the
advantage of simplicity (and of not being a visual one), but somewhat
despised lately, is that of the fundamental bass. In both cases (in the
Tonnetz as in the FB), what is represented is an abstract, parcimonious
voice leading (or that which Dmitri calls "efficient"). And both
metaphors would offer convenient ways of describing recursivity.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
<br>
Nicolas Meeùs<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nicolas.meeus@paris-sorbonne.fr">nicolas.meeus@paris-sorbonne.fr</a><br>
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