<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>There is another side to this problem. The contrary motion from P5 to P12 makes the motion of two voices independent, while parallel motion makes two voices sound as one. Unless we are talking about ribbon polyphony, a la, say, Prokofiev's first Fugitive Vision, we are not going to be satisfied with parallel perfect consonant intervals. It is the same, as motion in parallel octaves, while contrary motion of two octaves, the motion between two intervals, one being unison and nother and octave or two octaves of the same notes is not considered a voice leading error. By the way, diatonic system of major and minor is genuine modulo 4, it is based upon two disjoint tetrachords. Modulo 7 is a figment of theorist's imagination. Therefore, the P5 behaves like an octave in many cases. After four begins a new register in positional
numeric system. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In other words, in counterpoint, directional independence of voices is the most important criterion. As for the source of Dmitri's confusion, it is, again, the concept of so-called pitch class. The reduction of the notes in many octaves into one is undesirable, unnecessary and confusing. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best wishes,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ildar Khannanov</DIV>
<DIV>Peabody Conservatory</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:solfeggio7@jhu.edu">solfeggio7@jhu.edu</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> <BR>--- On <B>Thu, 7/8/10, Eytan Agmon <I><agmonz@012.net.il></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Eytan Agmon <agmonz@012.net.il><BR>Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Fwd: First Species Question<BR>To: Smt-talk@societymusictheory.org<BR>Date: Thursday, July 8, 2010, 5:29 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv304834091>
<STYLE>
<!--
#yiv304834091
_filtered #yiv304834091 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv304834091 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
#yiv304834091
#yiv304834091 p.MsoNormal, #yiv304834091 li.MsoNormal, #yiv304834091 div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"serif";}
#yiv304834091 a:link, #yiv304834091 span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv304834091 a:visited, #yiv304834091 span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv304834091 span.EmailStyle18
{font-family:"sans-serif";color:#1F497D;}
#yiv304834091 .MsoChpDefault
{}
_filtered #yiv304834091 {margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}
#yiv304834091 div.WordSection1
{}
-->
</STYLE>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Tim, Richard, and others,</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Tim's examples are very interesting, but if one analyzes them very carefully, I believe one will find that the "dissonance" lies elsewhere, <I>not</I> in the unisons or octaves as such.</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Richard's observation, that the same (chordal) note may be consonant in relation to one note, while dissonant in relation to another, is unexceptional (in Tim's examples the consonance is in relation to a pedal). Certainly it is no argument against characterizing the intervals in question as "consonant" and "dissonant," respectively.</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Eytan Agmon</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Bar-Ilan University</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> smt-talk-bounces@societymusictheory.org [mailto:smt-talk-bounces@societymusictheory.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Timothy Cutler<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 08, 2010 12:38 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Smt-talk@societymusictheory.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Smt-talk] Fwd: First Species Question</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR>For more examples along these lines, I have an article in a recent Music Theory Online that discusses a dissonant perfect unsion (!) by J. S. Bach. </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><A href="http://mto.societymusictheory.org/issues/mto.10.16.1/toc.16.1.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://mto.societymusictheory.org/issues/mto.10.16.1/toc.16.1.html</A></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Tim Cutler</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Cleveland Institute of Music</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Richard Hermann wrote:<BR> <BR>"Another mildly related situation occurs with dyadic definitions of dissonance such as "The Perfect 5th is a consonance." However, in a six-five chord a perfect fifth usually represents the dissonant chordal seventh in 18th- and 19th-century music. Atomistic and rigid definitions and perceptions seem to run into difficulties when applied to phenomena in the wild. They do have the mixed blessing of being easy to teach and learn. </DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>Smt-talk mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc450.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Smt-talk@societymusictheory.org" ymailto="mailto:Smt-talk@societymusictheory.org">Smt-talk@societymusictheory.org</A><BR><A href="http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org" target=_blank>http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>