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Dear Ildar,<br>
<br>
You are right and the case of Hugo Riemann is indeed extremely
important. I do not have his Grundriss at hand just now, but I
suppose that his 4th division reads "Die musikalische Fachlehre
(Musiktheorie)" (instead of Sachlehere). <br>
<br>
This raise a question that should receive more consideration in this
discussion. "Fachlehre" is the "craft of the discipline", the
techniques that practicing musicians put to use in their activity.
In a way, it does not belong to a "science of music" in the sense
that we give today to the word "science". And this certainly has
been one of the reasons why academic musicologists resisted against
the introduction of music theory in the academic realm: it must have
appeared as an intrusion of practical knowledges and techniques
within the domain of abstract speculation. Our conception of
"science" still owes much to the 18th-century Enlightenment and to
its idea that true knowledge should be gratuitous, free from any
consideration of personal benefit, i.e. also distinct from the
professional craft itself. The separate institutions of
Conservatoire and University in continental Europe is very much
based on this distinction between a craft and a speculative
thinking. <br>
<br>
It seems to me that what is understood as "music theory" in the US
shares from both aspects. When Stephen Jablonsky recently wrote that
in his opinion theory should include " (1) rudiments and labeling,
(2) analysis of complete pieces, and (3) composition", he very much
mixes the two aspects. I don't mean that this is mistaken, I only
thing that it is something we should further consider. Such theories
as Riemann's theory of functions, or Schenker's theory of the
Ursatz, are speculative theories which you may rightly want to
compare with philosophical systems. As theories, they are incredibly
remote from the craft of harmony, of part-writing, etc., as taught
to practicing musicians. Composition, similarly, belongs to the
craft of music, certainly not (or not immediately) to its
speculative, philosophical aspect. I mentioned before that
Schenker's Harmony had been translated 25 years before Free
Composition: this is precisely because Harmony was considered to
concern the craft, while Free Composition could pass for a
speculative approach.<br>
<br>
Now it seems to me that music theoricians, especially in the States,
often sit between to chairs in this respect. Some are craftsmen,
some are "philosophers", some are the two at the same time. But when
we, especially when you, dear American friends, speak of "music
theory", we may not really know what we are speaking of...<br>
<br>
Don't misunderstand me: I do not want to criticize anyone, I merely
mean that this duality craft/speculation deserves consideration.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
Nicolas Meeùs<br>
Université Paris-Sorbonne<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nicolas.meeus@paris-sorbonne.fr">nicolas.meeus@paris-sorbonne.fr</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Le 24/11/2010 06:17, Ildar Khannanov a écrit :
<blockquote cite="mid:803736.16554.qm@web45012.mail.sp1.yahoo.com"
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<div>Dear Nicolas,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>we should not forget Hugo Riemann's book Grundriss
der Musikwissenschaft, in which he suggests a very
elaborate and precise division of disciplines: Akustik,
Tonpsychologie, Musikaesthetik, Die musikalische
Sachlehre (Musiktheorie), Musikgeschichte. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Apparently, in his system, music theory and music
history are strictly and clearly separated. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>In early 1860s, at the St. Petersburg and at the
Moscow Conservatory, the Departments of History and
Theory of Music funcitoned as a combination of two
disciplines. However, the two were separated and taught
by different professors. In 1932, a Specialized Theory
Department had been created by Victor Zukkerman and Leo
Mazel at the Moscow Conservatory. Its function was to
develop music theory as a discipline and to teach
undergraduate theory majors (!), together with the
aspirants (graduate students). So, Kerman did not
introduce this division; he was not hte first.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ildar Khannanov</div>
<div>Peabody Conservatory <br>
</div>
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