<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear SMT List:<div><br></div><div>As a former Boulanger student, and as one who's preparing to write my dissertation on the French</div><div>Partimento tradition and NB's place in it, I communicated with Dmitri shortly after his post. Here's </div><div>a reprint of my message to him, plus my thoughts about what's been offered by others.</div><div><br></div><div>"I recall that Boulanger used the following:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>A few pages of unpublished v-l rules, a copy of which was in the library, that we handcopied </div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>for our own use. Someone has recently digitized them online. You'll find them if you do a search.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Her modulating cadences, also online</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The Dubois harmony text</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The Vidal basses (currently published by Dinsic, edited and realized by Narcis Bonet, with Forwards </div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>by Philip Lasser and myself)</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Her oral tradition</div><div><br></div><div>I myself am preparing to write my dissertation on her place in the partimento tradition."</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Re the Levin-Harrison-Talma text: I think I have a photo of them sitting behind the Hotel D'Albe in</div><div>F'bleau working on it. Subsequently, I believe, the task fell to Louis Martin (trained in France, </div><div>Hunter College faculty). He used it at Hunter (where I taught from it briefly in the early 90s), refining it </div><div>until the mid 90s, when he and Jim tried to market it. But around that time the Gauldin text came out, </div><div>with marketing that dwarfed theirs. Louis abandoned hope, retired from teaching and left the USA. </div><div>Afterwards, Hedi Siegel gave me some boxes of his materials, but his theory text is not there. </div><div>I recall it was a carefully wrought amalgam of species ctpt, figured bass, harmonic syntax, analysis </div><div>and keyboard harmony, requiring a three-year theory sequence. (He also published an ET text, </div><div>which had a more successful run--now out of print.) </div><div><br></div><div>Re the Vidal: When I studied with Boulanger, playing the exercises at the keyboard was not sufficient--</div><div>she expected us to write them (the more involved ones, anyway) in open score (four clefs) in ink, </div><div>then play them for her. My understanding was that this required us to hear/see each voice as a line</div><div>and to carefully work out our solutions. (We would sketch in pencil, then ink our final version just </div><div>before our lesson.) She rarely gave answers directly, but would discuss passages with us, </div><div>suggesting alternatives, refinements, etc. We would then make our revisions with tabs taped carefully </div><div>over the original version--there are spots in my notebooks that have layers of tabs suggesting different </div><div>possible patterns for a sequence. She also believed we'd have a record of our thought process this way. </div><div>These exercises are not so much for continuo playing as for improvising/composing, just as jazz players </div><div>learn hundreds of patterns for the filing cabinets of their minds. In my opinion, this is a fabulous way to </div><div>develop one's ear, fingers, reflexes, sensibility, etc. True, Vidal gives too many exercises and some </div><div>are boring. But one is free to choose. And to know when enough's enough!</div><div><br></div><div>Hope this sheds light on some things. </div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Donna Doyle</span></div><div apple-content-edited="true"><div> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><br></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Aaron Copland School of Music</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Queens College</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">65-30 Kissena Blvd.</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Flushing, NY 11367</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 14.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">tele: 718-997-3819</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">fax:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>718-997-3849</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">email: <a href="mailto:donna.doyle@qc.cuny.edu">donna.doyle@qc.cuny.edu</a></font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">email: <a href="mailto:donnadoyle@att.net">donnadoyle@att.net</a></font></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><br></font></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">------------------------------------</font></p> </div> </div><br><div><div>On Dec 18, 2010, at 7:12 PM, David Kopp wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Nicolas –<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The copy of Paul Vidal’s basses that has circulated over here was transcribed by Easley Blackwood, one of Nadia Boulanger’s students. It’s been reproduced and distributed privately in various degrees of completeness. A few of us on the list should possess a copy.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">David Kopp<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Boston University<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:smt-talk-bounces@lists.societymusictheory.org">smt-talk-bounces@lists.societymusictheory.org</a> [<a href="mailto:smt-talk-bounces@lists.societymusictheory.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:smt-talk-bounces@lists.societymusictheory.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Nicolas Meeùs<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, 17 December 2010 18:29<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>JONATHAN W BERNARD<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>SMT Talk<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Smt-talk] Written record of Boulanger pedagogy?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">It strikes me that Jonathan's description of the purpose (or the lack of purpose) of Vidal's exercises exactly matches what I'd say (here, not in France) of the traditional exercises of the Paris Conservatoire and of the French way of teaching harmony in general. Harmony properly speaking in not taken in account, in so far as there is no attempt made to distinguish good progressions from poor or bad ones. The only concern is to have a correct voice leading, especially in avoiding parallel perfect consonances.<br><br>French "harmony", since Catel's treatise of 1801, probably, is nothing more than a kind of naïve tonal counterpoint, without any real concern for harmonic progressions or (which boils down to the same) for tonality. And, as Jonathan seems to suggest, the figures become mere labels for the chords, to be translated at first sight into chords totally decontextualized. "Making sense" is utterly foreign to this teaching.<br><br>I am afraid to have to say that this, even today, remains the way harmony is taught not only in the French conservatoires (after all, conservatoires are the places where tradition is conserved), but also in universities, and even,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>horresco referens</i>, in the Sorbonne.<br><br>This all would tend to indicate that Boulanger's harmonic pedagogy, if it was based on these Vidal basses, may not have been very different from the French traditional one (i.e. that of the Conservatoire National Supérieur de Paris), with its odd figures includig +6, +4, etc., or barred 5, etc.<br><br>But let me know: who is the Vidal mentioned here? Is there a publication of his basses? I never heard of these exercises around here. They cannot be worse than some I have had to do during my studies, but I know nothing of them. And as one of my former students is planning a study of this extremely odd French tradition, I'd very much like to know.<br><br>Nicolas Meeùs<br>Université Paris-Sorbonne<br><br><br><br>Le 17/12/2010 04:39, JONATHAN W BERNARD a écrit :<o:p></o:p></div><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">Hello, Dmitri, and everyone,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">[...]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">One caution I'd like to offer here concerns the Vidal basses. Having spent untold hours of my freshman year in college plugging through page after page of these figured-bass exercises, under the tutelage myself of a Boulanger disciple, I have the distinct impression that Vidal designed these quite deliberately not to follow any known rules of harmonic progression. The whole point seemed to be to make progression unpredictable, forcing the student to learn to read the figures mechanically and accurately, to get them right at first sight without any contextual clues (such as what would "make sense" harmonically in a given situation). They are entirely artificial exercises: no upper parts are provided, as would of course be present for real continuo playing. Other veterans/victims of the Vidal regimen may disagree with this assessment; I'd love to hear from them either way.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">Jonathan Bernard<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">University of Washington<o:p></o:p></pre></div>_______________________________________________<br>Smt-talk mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>