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<font face="Calibri">Rick,<br>
<br>
I am afraid we are evaluating these cases from the point of view
of our respective theories of tonality. Any argument that we could
have would aim at the validity of the theory, more than at the
cases themselves. It may therefore not be very wise to go any
further...<br>
<br>
I may agree that the C-minor chord in m. 7 of op. 39#15 is
Dominant-Parallel; in m. 8, it certainly transformed in
Tonic-Leittonwechsel, G remaining the common note until m. 9
(after which it does at last resolve as the leading tone). I
think to hear G5 in m. 7 as a consonant skip above Eb5 and
returning to it (probably because I already hear the Fb7 chord of
m. 6 as IV in C minor; the downbeat of m. 7 could then be
considered as an "inverted" V6/4). At any rate, I fail to hear any
tendency of G5 to climb to Ab5. (And my distance hearing is not
such that I can imagine tensions in m. 7 resolving in the next to
last measure, m. 35 in my version of the score: I can read that,
but not hear it.)<br>
<br>
Nicolas Meeùs<br>
Paris-Sorbonne<br>
<br>
</font><br>
Le 8/02/2012 04:32, Richard Cohn a écrit :
<blockquote cite="mid:4F31ECCD.2020404@yale.edu" type="cite">Nicolas,
<br>
<br>
I personally hear many non-resolving leading tones as bearing
strong expectations in the absence of realization. For me, this
issue comes into strong focus when 19th-century composers begin to
take advantage of the expressive potential vested in the direct
move move major tonics to minor mediants. Consider the Brahms
Ab-major Waltz, Op. 39 # 15 (perhaps the most familiar of these
waltzes). On the downbeat of measure 7, in the approach to the
C-minor cadence one measure later, Brahms sounds a C-minor triad
in 6/3 position with G5 on top, the highest pitch in the
composition so far. (The bass support of global ^7 by global ^5
makes it feel very much like a global dominant: in Riemannian
terms, this tonicized C minor is the Dominant-parallel, not the
Tonic-Leittonwechsel). Brahms then descends scale-wise downward
from that G5, leaving it hanging. An acute sense of yearning and
incompletion is central to my experience of this moment.
<br>
<br>
At the parallel point of the reprise, one measure before the final
cadence, Brahms ascends one semitone higher, to Ab5. I experience
all of the residual tension from the earlier G5 as discharged; an
extraordinary effect (yet so simple....).
<br>
<br>
--Rick Cohn
<br>
Yale University
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Message: 1
<br>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:57:02 +0100
<br>
From: Nicolas Mee?s<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nicolas.meeus@paris-sorbonne.fr"><nicolas.meeus@paris-sorbonne.fr></a>
<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Uncommon six-four chords
<br>
Message-ID:<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:4F3149CE.9020906@paris-sorbonne.fr"><4F3149CE.9020906@paris-sorbonne.fr></a>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
<br>
<br>
Even although I can understand a desire to consider the harmony
without
<br>
the voice leading, I think that the limit is reached when ^7 is
dubbed
<br>
"the leading-tone" (and vii? "the leading-tone triad"), while
this tone
<br>
does not lead to the tonic. In the case of IV--vii?6/4--IV, it
seems
<br>
unavoidable that the voice leading includes ^6--^7--^6. (It
might be
<br>
possible to hear ^6--^7--^8, but that probably would be an
inadequate
<br>
hearing.)
<br>
<br>
This raises the question whether a chord including ^7 can be
considered
<br>
a dominant when this tone does not resolve on the tonic -- or,
in other
<br>
terms, whether the attraction (and the accompanying tension)
exists
<br>
without being resolved, whether tonality involves expectations
even in
<br>
the absence of realization. In my opinion, attraction and
tension are
<br>
retrospective: one realizes that they existed when resolved
(and, in the
<br>
absence of resolution, that they were not there, at least in the
<br>
habitual sense).
<br>
<br>
A neighboring 6/4 decorating a subdominant is merely that, in my
<br>
opinion, a neighboring decoration, an effect of voice-leading.
Note that
<br>
in m. 11 of "La Paix", the true ^7, the major 3rd of the V
chord, does
<br>
not resolve as a leading tone either: the progression is IV -- I
-- V --
<br>
ii -- vi, a "reverse" progression, in which tonal functions are
suspended.
<br>
<br>
Nicolas Mee?s
<br>
Universit? Paris-Sorbonne
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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