<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Dear Dimitar,<br><br>Thank you for your thoughtful reply. After time to read it carefully, I'll respond with more particulars.<br><br>Perhaps--in my message to which you're replying--I spoke hastily, assuming too much. The listening experience<br>I was describing was hearing <i>a new piece for the first time</i>. (I understood you to ask me how I hear the pedal point,<br>not how I analyze it upon score study/ subsequent hearing.) Moreover, I didn't mean to entirely dismiss hearing<br>upper registers. For me, upper registers impinge themselves on my consciousness more easily, so I focus<br>my attention on the bass, to even up the score, so to speak. Of course, the bass is part of the total fabric.<br>And, as I said, the bass gives me more information with which to grasp the piece as a whole entity. Surely, upon<br>examination, details come into focus.<br><br>As for your Schumann ex, I would probably hear the period above the bass straightaway--be able to write it out.<br>Indeed, I ask my ear training students to do just that ("A parallel period with I-II-V-I over a T pedal, HC in m 4 and</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div>an AC In m 8").</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div>Another exercise I give them is to 'graph' an entire (small) piece I play for them, from a Caplin-esque phrase-structure/<br>sections/ deep middleground bassline perspective. Perhaps others do that now, too--no one ever did it for me in<br>DC (all the work was note-to-note foreground). I think it's vitally important. Plus, it gives perfect-pitch people something to do.<br><br>All for now.<br><br>Best,<br>Donna Doyle<br>Queens College CUNY<br><br><br>On Feb 13, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Ninov, Dimitar N wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Derar Donna,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Thank you for your message. I will address your points somewhat backwards.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">1. Pedal point. The pedal point is neither a chord tone nor a non-chord tone; it is a compositional device, which (in its true nature) is a platform upon which different events happen. Anything between a long organ passage (polyphonic or harmonic or both) which unfolds over a "drone" in the organ's pedal and a short "orgelpunkt" upon which only three or sometimes even two chords occur, may happen in the realm of the pedal point. In this sense it not only does not defy by-functionality- it welcomes it, and this process is inevitable. This is why pedal point shall not be studied in the chapter of non-chord tones, but separately, after modulation. Exceptions: the explanation of pedal six-four chords and the cadential six-four, which relate to the concept of pedal point will be provided in the corresponding chapter with a link to the pedal point chapter.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2. Foreground versus background. You say:"I hear a pedal as a single function (e. g., as a dominant retrans). However, there are times when I don't want to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">work hard, preferring to sit back and enjoy the scenery (the foreground). In this case, I would probably hear<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">activity over a pedal as a separate progression, but, nevertheless, over the prevailing bass.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I am astonished; in fact you have to work harder when you need to look "behind" the pedal point to discern the harmonic functions which occur over it, not the other way around. The first thing thing that impresses your mind is the pedal point, not the functions which occur on top of it. You do not have to apply any effort to discern the function of the pedal point which is usually a tonic or a dominant. In this sense (which is not Schenkerian) the pedal point may be the surface, and what happens behind the scene may be the background. To give you an example: Robert Schumann, Op. 68, No. 18 - "Schnitterliedchen". A parallel period which unfolds over a double tonic pedal point. What impresses us on the surface is the pedal point. But the formal and deeper harmonic analysis reveals a parallel period, which occurs over an implied progression I-II6-V7-I. All this happens over a tonic bass.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Find it and play it for yourself. If this is a parallel period, it certainly has cadences, and these implied cadences are IAC and PAC. Notice: an implied IAC and PAC over a pedal point! Something which defies the assumption that a functional prolongation automatically negates cadence. (This is William Caplin's notion about which I have had long arguments with him). I wonder how Schenkerians would analyze that!<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">According to your logic, when you relax, you will discover all the functional motion over a pedal point at once, but when you work harder, you will realize that the the bass states the tonic function. Is it not the other way around?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The bass may usually "run" the show (such as in the cadential six-four, where the tonic function eventually gives way to the dominant in the bass) but there are cases which contain much more than that.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Thank you,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Dimitar<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Dr. Dimitar Ninov, Lecturer<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">School of Music<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Texas State University<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">601 University Drive<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">San Marcos, Texas 78666<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: Donna Doyle [<a href="mailto:donnadoyle@att.net">donnadoyle@att.net</a>]<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 8:05 PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: Ninov, Dimitar N<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Cc: <a href="mailto:smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Nature and Labeling of the Cadential Six-Four<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Dear Dimitar,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Re the pedal point (a technique quite different from the cad 6/4, of course, about which I have yet to read all<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the recent commentary): How I hear a pedal point depends upon which level I'm listening to--the middle-<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">or the foreground. Generally, my attention is drawn to the bassline, as it gives me more information than the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">top parts about the course of the piece. Listening to the bassline enables me to follow the piece on various<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">middleground levels. This takes focused, sustained attention and memory but is extremely satisfying. In this case,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I hear a pedal as a single function (e. g., as a dominant retrans). However, there are times when I don't want to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">work hard, preferring to sit back and enjoy the scenery (the foreground). In this case, I would probably hear<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">activity over a pedal as a separate progression, but, nevertheless, over the prevailing bass. (I believe that,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">because of the strength of the bass's overtones, true bi-functionality is difficult to achieve, if not impossible.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Scoring has a big influence. Don Sebesky, the film composer/arranger, taught me this.) From another<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">perspective--traditionally, the pedal point is classified as a dissonance, like the passing tone, etc. There are times,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I think, when it is just plain dissonant with the upper part activity--when it fades in and out of agreement. This, too,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">though, argues against bi-functionality, doesn't it?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Generally, I tend to believe the bass runs the show. (Move your arms all you like, but if your feet stay glued<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to the floor, you ain't dancin'.)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Best,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Donna Doyle<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Queens College CUNY<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 13, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Ninov, Dimitar N wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Dear Dona,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You say: The cadential 6/4<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">When the bass ascends the scale from T through S to D, it makes<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">little sense to me that, upon reaching the ^5,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the other voices would sound T above it. This reminds me of Terry<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Southern's '60s satirical novelette, "Candy":<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">An American young woman travels to Tibet seeking a guru. Upon<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">reaching the top of his mountain and meeting<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">him face to face, she exclaims, "Daddy!"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I have a question for you. When a passage unfolds over a pedal point (T or D) do you only hear one single function throughout? Do you not recognize bi-functionality per se?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Dr. Dimitar Ninov, Lecturer<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">School of Music<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Texas State University<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">601 University Drive<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">San Marcos, Texas 78666<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Smt-talk mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org<<a href="mailto:Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">mailto:Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org">http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>