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<font face="Calibri">Hubert Waelrand (+1595) probably introduced
'Ho' (or 'O') as the octave of 'Ut' in the second half of the 16th
century. He also appears to be at the origin of the *syllabae
belgae*, Bo Ce Di Ga Lo Ma Ni, which have the same vowels as Do Re
Mi Fa Sol La Si. Gibelius' Seminarium was first published in 1645
(</font>Celle, Elias Holwein), but I don't know whether that
edition already mentions 'Do'.<br>
<br>
<font face="Calibri">The earliest chromatic system may be that of
David Hitzler, 1628, who proposed Ce Ci De Di Me Mi Fe Fi Ge Gi La
Be Bi, 13 notes because Di (D#) and Me (Eb) somehow double each
other. The system is an interesting mixing of alphabetic and
syllable notation.<br>
<br>
Fétis still wrote 'Ut' in his *Traité*, 5th edition, 1853, and
some French authors (e.g. Vincent d'Indy) apparently still do so
in the early 20th century, but others had switched to 'Do' (e.g.
Albert Lavignac). The *New Grove Online* (art. 'Pitch
nomenclature') still implies that the French say 'Ut', but I met
nobody here who did.<br>
<br>
</font>Nicolas Meeùs<br>
Université Paris-Sorbonne<br>
<font face="Calibri"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 18/07/2012 22:56, Ben Dobbs a
écrit :<br>
</div>
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Otto Gibelius (a student of Heinrich Grimm, who was in turn a
student of Michael Praetorius) uses 'Do' in his Seminarium
modulatoriae vocalis (published in 1657 in Bremen and 1658 in
Rinteln). Of further interest is his alteration of the
solmization syllables for chromatically inflected notes. He
presents two sets of syllables, one for singing unaltered
pitches (using the syllables Do Re Mi FA So La Ni Do), and one
that accommodates inflection (using the syllables Di Ri Ma Fi Si
Lo Na Di) for a total of fourteen syllables (p. 107). To my
knowledge, this is the earliest use of both 'Do' and chromatic
inflection, though there are quite possibly earlier ones.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,<br>
<br>
<font class="ecxApple-style-span" face="Garamond"><span
class="ecxApple-style-span" style="font-size:12pt"><font
class="ecxApple-style-span" color="#1F497D">Benjamin
Dobbs, M.M.</font></span></font>
<div><font class="ecxApple-style-span" face="Garamond"><span
class="ecxApple-style-span" style="font-size:12pt"><font
class="ecxApple-style-span" color="#1F497D">Doctoral
Teaching Fellow in Music Theory</font></span></font></div>
<div><font class="ecxApple-style-span" face="Garamond"><span
class="ecxApple-style-span" style="font-size:12pt"><font
class="ecxApple-style-span" color="#1F497D">University
of North Texas</font></span></font></div>
<br>
<br>
<div>> From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:smt-talk-request@lists.societymusictheory.org">smt-talk-request@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br>
> Subject: Smt-talk Digest, Vol 42, Issue 19<br>
> To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br>
> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:04:49 -0700<br>
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> 1. Re: Movable-Do subculture in the Romance tradition?
(Thomas Noll)<br>
> 2. ut v do (Peter Schubert, Prof.)<br>
> 3. Re: SIGHT SINGING BOOK (Ildar Khannanov)<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> <br>
> Message: 1<br>
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:37:42 +0200<br>
> From: Thomas Noll <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:noll@cs.tu-berlin.de"><noll@cs.tu-berlin.de></a><br>
> To: JAY RAHN <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jayrahn@rogers.com"><jayrahn@rogers.com></a><br>
> Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Movable-Do subculture in the
Romance<br>
> tradition?<br>
> Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:A5B9D40E-2E6D-407D-A098-2A1454A7A8A3@cs.tu-berlin.de"><A5B9D40E-2E6D-407D-A098-2A1454A7A8A3@cs.tu-berlin.de></a><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
> <br>
> Dear Jay(!)<br>
> Re-Reading my quick posting I realized, that in a
moment of inattention I didn't insert your name into the
salutation. Let me assure that I'm well aware about your
valuable contributions to algebraic music theory since
several years. Apologies for my inattention!<br>
> Sincerely<br>
> Thomas Noll<br>
> <br>
> > Dear John, <br>
> > Many thanks for pointing to this very interesting
article. <br>
> > In this paper you seem to emphasize to a kind of
"Hauptmannian" aspect in Curwen's Tonic SolFa, where the
major scale appears as a triad of triads with the tonic
triad in privileged the role of having singular overlaps
with the other two triads which are mutually disjoint. <br>
> > <br>
> > Your counter-factual 19-Tone illustration is very
suggestive and thought-provoking. The ideas is, that the
(maximally even) C-, F#-, and Gb- Major scales within the 19
tone scale have an analogous intersection behavior as the
C-, F- and G- major triads in the (generic) diatonic scale;
and that the relative voice-leading behavior between these
scales is analogous to that between the triads. It is
challenging to understand, what makes particularly these
combinatorial properties "tonal". I mentioned Hauptmann,
because your construction seems still to exemplify
properties upon which one could project the process of a
dialectical triad in Hauptmann's manner. <br>
> > <br>
> > However, in the 19-Tone scale the extensions of
three concepts fall apart, which have the same extension in
the major scale: do, fa and so.<br>
> > (1) The roots of the three "Curwen scales" are C,
F# and Gb. <br>
> > (2) The three "major thirds" in the role of the
"sensitive intervals" are here C-E#, Gb-B, and G-B# . see
section 4.4 in:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mtosmt.org/issues/mto.11.17.1/mto.11.17.1.clampitt_and_noll.html">http://www.mtosmt.org/issues/mto.11.17.1/mto.11.17.1.clampitt_and_noll.html</a><br>
> > (3) In the Ionian mode the Tones C, F, and G form
a tetractys skeleton of the Ionian mode and the interval
between F and G is the diazeuxis (i.e. the interval between
the generator and its octave complement). This is still true
for a fifth-generated 19-tone mode abaabaababa | abaabaab,
(where a is an augmented prime and b a diminished second).<br>
> > The species of the "fourth" abaabaab (wich here
has 8 microsteps) is a prefix of the species of the "fifth"
abaabaababa (wich here has 11 microsteps). And the remaining
factor is the "diazeuxus" aba. It is not a step, though, in
the 19-tone world. <br>
> > <br>
> > The three triples of anchor notes are close but
yet different (1) C-F#-Gb, (2) C-Gb-G, (3) C-F-G, <br>
> > Sincerely<br>
> > Thomas Noll<br>
> > <br>
> >> A study that relates Curwen's tonic sol-fa
method to more recent formulations is accessible at:<br>
> >> <br>
> >>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://pi.library.yorku.ca/dspace/handle/10315/6610">http://pi.library.yorku.ca/dspace/handle/10315/6610</a><br>
> >> <br>
> >> Jay Rahn, York University (Toronto)<br>
> >> <br>
> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Eytan Agmon
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:agmonz@012.net.il"><agmonz@012.net.il></a> wrote:<br>
> >> <br>
> >> From: Eytan Agmon <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:agmonz@012.net.il"><agmonz@012.net.il></a><br>
> >> Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Movable-Do subculture
in the Romance tradition?<br>
> >> To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br>
> >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 7:39 AM<br>
> >> <br>
> >> ?Moveable Do? syllables are (melodic) scale
degrees, that is, intervals from the tonic (reduced modulo
the octave). The ?tonic Sol-Fa method? was codified and
disseminated by John Curwen in the 19th century. However,
the idea dates back to the ?octave species? of medieval
modal theory (and ultimately Greek theory).<br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Eytan Agmon<br>
> >> <br>
> >> Bar-Ilan University<br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >> <br>
> >>
_______________________________________________<br>
> >> Smt-talk mailing list<br>
> >> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br>
> >>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org">http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org</a><br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> >
*********************************************************<br>
> > Thomas Noll<br>
> > <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~noll">http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~noll</a><br>
> > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:noll@cs.tu-berlin.de">noll@cs.tu-berlin.de</a><br>
> > Escola Superior de Musica de Catalunya, Barcelona
<br>
> > Departament de Teoria i Composici? <br>
> > <br>
> >
*********************************************************<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
*********************************************************<br>
> Thomas Noll<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~noll">http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~noll</a><br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:noll@cs.tu-berlin.de">noll@cs.tu-berlin.de</a><br>
> Escola Superior de Musica de Catalunya, Barcelona <br>
> Departament de Teoria i Composici? <br>
> <br>
>
*********************************************************<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
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> <br>
> ------------------------------<br>
> <br>
> Message: 2<br>
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:14:56 +0000<br>
> From: "Peter Schubert, Prof."
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peter.schubert@mcgill.ca"><peter.schubert@mcgill.ca></a><br>
> To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">"smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org"</a><br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org"><smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org></a><br>
> Subject: [Smt-talk] ut v do<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:5353D9442F30D641B121819995AE71B3145C65@exmbx2010-9.campus.MCGILL.CA"><5353D9442F30D641B121819995AE71B3145C65@exmbx2010-9.campus.MCGILL.CA></a><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
> <br>
> Nicolas Meeus wondered when ut changed to do. The
earliest I know of is Bononcini's Musico prattico (1673)
where he says "S'avverta, che in vece della sillaba Ut I
moderni si servono di questa Do, per essere piu risuonante"
(p. 35).<br>
> <br>
> Peter Schubert<br>
> Schulich School of Music<br>
> McGill University<br>
> 555 Sherbrooke St. W.<br>
> Montreal, QC H3A 1E3<br>
> (514) 398-4535 x00281<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ------------------------------<br>
> <br>
> Message: 3<br>
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:12:34 -0700 (PDT)<br>
> From: Ildar Khannanov <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:solfeggio7@yahoo.com"><solfeggio7@yahoo.com></a><br>
> To: smt-talk smt
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smt-talk@societymusictheory.org"><smt-talk@societymusictheory.org></a>, Stephen Jablonsky<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jablonsky@optimum.net"><jablonsky@optimum.net></a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] SIGHT SINGING BOOK<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:1342591954.25306.YahooMailClassic@web45002.mail.sp1.yahoo.com"><1342591954.25306.YahooMailClassic@web45002.mail.sp1.yahoo.com></a><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Dear Stephen,<br>
> ?<br>
> I would love to look at it. Please, send me a copy (or
a selection).<br>
> ?<br>
> One thing I noticed?while teaching ear training in
Oklahoma and in Baltimore is lacking of materials for the
first stage, first encounter. Ottman begins?with Brahms
and?Bulgarian melodies.?It is here where a student makes
connection between what he or she knows as music (songs my
mother sang to me) and what is to be learned. Folk??music is
extremely important in the first stage, and I do not mean
Balinese folks music. No, local tunes, songs, dances. The
Beatles included. I remember myself solfegizing a song about
Zaika--a Little Bunny, at the age of four. This makes a
connection between the natural song element, national style
and academic music. Kodaly supported that, and
others.?Proves to be the most important for composers and
performers.<br>
> ?<br>
> Later on, it is important to introduce melodies formed
after real music. Ottman's tunelets are quite inadequate.
They are all?too short, within a period.?In contrast, French
collections, Dannheuser et al.. present melodies in a small
or even large?ternary form taken from either operatic or
instrumental repertoire. The middle section is always
diffcult to sing, but that is the sign of a good solfege. In
general, if solfege goes easy, it means that we are doing
something wrong. Solfege=suffering.<br>
> ?<br>
> Best,<br>
> ?<br>
> Dr. Ildar Khannanov<br>
> Peabody Conservatory<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:solfeggio7@yahoo.com">solfeggio7@yahoo.com</a><br>
> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Stephen Jablonsky
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jablonsky@optimum.net"><jablonsky@optimum.net></a> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> From: Stephen Jablonsky <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jablonsky@optimum.net"><jablonsky@optimum.net></a><br>
> Subject: [Smt-talk] SIGHT SINGING BOOK<br>
> To: "smt-talk smt"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smt-talk@societymusictheory.org"><smt-talk@societymusictheory.org></a><br>
> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 7:12 AM<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> While the gang is knee deep in the solfege discussion I
was prompted to inquire about any possible interest in a new
collection of materials for sight singing classes on the
college level. I have just finished a book I call Molto
Cantabile! that is a compilation of ?456 complete melodies
drawn from folk, popular and classical repertoires. They are
organized by difficulty into four semesters. I was inspired
to do this because I have been using the Berkowitz book for
decades and always enjoyed its Melodies From the Literature
section. Recently I realized that today's music major knows
almost nothing about the great music of the 18th, 19th, and
20th centuries. Many of my students do not even know the
music of the Beatles because The Fab Four broke up twenty
years before my students were born. So I realized that even
though the bulk of the tunes in the
Berkowitz/Frontrier/Kraft book are well crafted by those
three gentlemen it was important for my students<br>
> to have a working knowledge of the great tunes from<br>
> the concert history of the past three centuries.
Because of the difficulty and expense of including
copyrighted music I have limited the collection to works
composed before 1923.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I would be happy to send you a PDF file of the index
and some sample pages so you can see what is included in the
collection. Unlike Ottman there are no unattributed tunes
from foreign lands. All of the music has a title and
composer (when available). Unlike Karpinski, there are no
four-measure fragments. In most cases the tune is complete.
If it is a symphonic excerpt you get at least two phrases if
not more. It is my contention that students will work harder
if they feel the content is worthy of their efforts so every
tune has been hand picked by me with that in mind. Ten
percent of the book uses C clefs and there are a sizable
number of duets.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Prof. Stephen Jablonsky, Ph.D.<br>
> Music Department Chair<br>
> The City College of New York<br>
> 160 Convent Avenue S-72<br>
> New York NY 10031<br>
> (212) 650-7663<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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