<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Nice post, Seth. I would like to hope that those who need to think about these issues will be motivated to do so, but bitter experience shows that those who need to reflect the most are perhaps immune to doing so. <div><br></div><div>I leave the question of blocking, banning, and the like to those in power in the society. But whether or not those extraordinary measures are taken, it might be helpful to point out that other consequences are already in play. Specifically, that this is a PUBLIC record. Even if you (unlike me, who never discards ANYTHING) don't save SMT postings, they are easily retrievable through the society website.</div><div><br></div><div>I, for one, just supervised one job search, and will soon (it is to be hoped) be participating in another. Standard practice for us now is when we get a short list of candidates is to do a little research on the SMT-Talk archives. It's a great place to find out how a candidate behaves professionally and collegially...or not. I also have some research projects in the works, and will likely be seeking participants—again after the same sort of basic research. Candidates who have behaved badly have actually seriously hampered their own chances, at least as far as we're concerned.</div><div><br></div><div>There is that mysterious illusion that, because we write emails in the privacy of our offices and studies, often with no witnesses other than the computer and the dog, that they are somehow private and that we are thereby free to behave without the constraints that we might feel in a faculty meeting or a paper session—something like the illusion that cell-phone conversations in a subway are somehow "private". They're not!</div><div><br></div><div>So I would remind everyone that you are speaking (or shouting or fulminating or...) in a forum that includes prospective employers and colleagues. Prudent people will behave accordingly...</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>CJS<br><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:DocumentProperties> <o:Template>Normal.dotm</o:Template> <o:Revision>0</o:Revision> <o:TotalTime>0</o:TotalTime> <o:Pages>1</o:Pages> <o:Words>225</o:Words> <o:Characters>1284</o:Characters> <o:Company>Eastman School of Music</o:Company> <o:Lines>10</o:Lines> <o:Paragraphs>2</o:Paragraphs> <o:CharactersWithSpaces>1576</o:CharactersWithSpaces> <o:Version>12.0</o:Version> </o:DocumentProperties> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves>false</w:TrackMoves> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:DrawingGridHorizontalSpacing>18 pt</w:DrawingGridHorizontalSpacing> <w:DrawingGridVerticalSpacing>18 pt</w:DrawingGridVerticalSpacing> <w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery>0</w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery> <w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery>0</w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:DontAutofitConstrainedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> </w:Compatibility> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="276"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--> <!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> <!--StartFragment--><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">I’d like to second Dmitri’s concerns (see below). The Society’s website stipulates that posts to this forum should </span><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:13.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Georgia; color:#131313">“adhere to standards of courteous professional discourse.” Much of what ends up in my inbox lately falls rather short of this mark: persons insinuating (repeatedly) that anyone who disagrees with them is foolish, incompetent, or unmusical; sneering insults lobbed at entire swathes of the discipline; gratuitous (and often off-topic) negative stereotyping; smug pontification; bombastic axe-grinding; and so on. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:13.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Georgia; color:#131313">Granted, all this comes from a *vanishingly* small, highly vocal minority. But I find it disconcerting nonetheless. It’s not “courteous,” it’s often only barely “professional” in content, and, in its commitment to provoking dissent only to shout it down, doesn’t strike me as the kind of “discourse” that this list was meant to foster.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:13.0pt;font-family:Arial; mso-bidi-font-family:Georgia;color:#131313">Let this count as my vote for more stringent moderation and, if need be, a greater empowering of the moderators. Emails not meeting</span><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:13.0pt;font-family:Arial; mso-bidi-font-family:Georgia;color:#FF6600"> </span><span style="mso-bidi-font-size: 13.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:Georgia">a basic level of<span style="color:#FF6600"> </span><span style="color:#131313">civility should be blocked; posters who use this list as a pulpit for hurling broad, self-aggrandizing disparagements should be banned. Others may disagree, but I do not think we should let bullies rule the roost out of a misplaced fear of curtailing the “open exchange of ideas.” Are we really at the point where someone will have to go to the trouble of creating a parallel list just so colleagues can discuss and debate their ideas in a climate of mutual respect?</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(19, 19, 19); font-family: Arial; ">Regards,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(19, 19, 19); font-family: Arial; ">SM</span></p><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; "></span></font><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">-----------------------------------------------------------</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">Seth Monahan</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">Assistant Professor of Music Theory</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">Managing Editor, <i>Theory and Practice</i></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">Eastman School of Music</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">26 Gibbs St.</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">Rochester, NY, 14604</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">(585) 274-1556</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#131313" face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "><a href="mailto:smonahan@esm.rochester.edu">smonahan@esm.rochester.edu</a></span></font></font></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><br><div><div>On Jul 15, 2012, at 3:04 PM, <a href="mailto:smt-talk-request@lists.societymusictheory.org">smt-talk-request@lists.societymusictheory.org</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">I just want to remind everyone that "Dmitri [Tymoczko]" and "Dimitar [Ninov]" are two entirely separate people -- one at Princeton, one at Texas.<br><br>I haven't been contributing to the list much, recently, because I worry that the level of discussion is deteriorating. There seems to be a lot more shouting and a lot less scholarship than there was a few years ago. It's gotten to the point where I've been contemplating starting a new list with a much more rigorous moderation policy.<br><br>DT<br><br>Dmitri Tymoczko<br>Professor of Music<br>310 Woolworth Center<br>Princeton, NJ 08544-1007<br>(609) 258-4255 (ph), (609) 258-6793 (fax)<br><a href="http://dmitri.tymoczko.com/">http://dmitri.tymoczko.com</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>Smt-talk mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br>http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org<br></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div>Charles J. Smith</div><div>Slee Chair of Music Theory & Chair of the Department</div><div>Department of Music, 220 Baird Hall</div><div>University at Buffalo</div><div>Buffalo, NY 14260</div><div>U.S.A.</div><div>716-645-0639 [direct line]</div><div>716-645-3824 [fax]</div><div><a href="mailto:cjsmith@buffalo.edu">cjsmith@buffalo.edu</a></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></div></body></html>