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<font face="Calibri">Fiona,<br>
<br>
I cannot really discuss your hypothesis of the leap from the
final, which you probably submitted to many tests. I have no such
arguments and only can envisage it in the abstract. The abstract
questions that remain open in my mind include these:<br>
<br>
</font><font face="Calibri">– Would not the antiphone/psalm joining
be from the modal final to the psalm intonatio? (This raises the
question whether the intonation was sung at each verse, a point
about which you may know better.) Supposing that the succession
really is between the final and the first note of the psalm-tone
intonation, the situation varies from mode to mode: 1, D–F; 2,
D–C; 3, E–G; 4, E–a; 5, F–D; 6, F–F; 7, G–c; 8, G–G. In other
words, there would be no upwards leap in modes/tones 2, 5, 6 an 8;
I admit that these are not among the most frequent...</font><br>
<font face="Calibri"><br>
– If there are more that one upwards leaps in a melody, not all
from the final, how does one know which one is from the final? I
mean this especially if the leap where to be understood as a
conventional signal, as I trust there are of all kinds in all
sorts of ensemble </font><font face="Calibri"><font
face="Calibri">oral </font>music.<br>
<br>
– If the leap often is from the final to the tenor/reciting tone,
could it not more generally be said that it is the relation
between these notes, not necessarily established by a direct leap
but rather by statistic qualities of the notes, that define the
tonal centricity? Final and tenor often merely </font><font
face="Calibri"><font face="Calibri">are </font>the most present
notes, from a statistical point of view... I cannot refrain
thinking that this final/tenor relation eventually led to the
mid-11th century (St Emmeran) theory of the fourth and fifth
species, and later to the "neo-classical" conception of the modes
which, I believe, strongly determines tonal centricity in modal
polyphony.<br>
<br>
Certainly, I have to read your book, and I'll do so as soon as
possible. And your mention of secular music in this respect is
tantalizing.<br>
<br>
You probably graduated in Paris-Sorbonne just before I arrived
there. Did you work with Nicole Sevestre? (But that probably
better belongs to private discussions.)<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
Nicolas Meeùs,<br>
Université Paris-Sorbonne (Emeritus)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 3/09/2013 12:00, Fiona McAlpine a
écrit :<br>
</div>
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Dear Nicolas,
<div>Your second question first: tonal centricity. I too would
say that, when all notes in all scales/ modes are the same,
there has to be a way in which the performer knows which
should be the final, & that this is nowhere more acute
than in the antiphon/psalm interchange. As you say, a lot of
antiphons are very short: where you might still get that leap
is from final of antiphon to tenor of psalm. This is where the
joining mattered. </div>
<div>Your first question now: whether that leap is a natural or
conventional way of signalling the tonal centre? I think I'd
say it's both: it's there in the music, & can't be
gainsaid; but how did it get there? we don't know.</div>
<div>I can also say that it is there in the secular trouvère
music manuscripts.</div>
<div>subsidiary questions: the leap from the final is often to
the tenor/reciting tone; but not always. see the dark phrygian
modes</div>
<div>
<div>& cordes m~eres: again, for a fuller discussion you'd
have to read my book.</div>
<div><i>Salut</i> from a graduate of Paris-IV,</div>
<div><i>f</i><br>
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class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium"><font
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Fiona McAlpine</font></span></font>
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<div id="divRpF879228" style="direction: ltr; "><font
face="Tahoma" size="2" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Nicolas Meeùs [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nicolas.meeus@scarlet.be">nicolas.meeus@scarlet.be</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 29 August 2013 09:06<br>
<b>To:</b> Fiona McAlpine<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Smt-talk] Examples of Modes<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div><font face="Calibri">Fiona,<br>
<br>
Unfortnuately, I cannot have access to your book just
now; but I read your paper "Arripui hymnarium" in
<i>De musica disserenda</i>, which gave me an idea of
your hypothesis. I am very interested with tonal
centricity, which to me is essential to the very notion
of 'modality'. I believe, for instance, that late
medieval and Renaissance polyphony is modal because it
evidences tonal centricity. <br>
I have two questions, however; I am aware that I may
find an answer at least to the first one in your book,
which I intend to read as soon as possible: in that
case, don't bother to answer it.<br>
<br>
The first question is: do you think that the leap upward
from the final is somehow a 'natural', unconscious
feature of modes, or do you view it as a conventional
way of signaling the tonal center? On the one hand I
fail to see how such feature could result, say, from the
structure of the diatonic system; it is true that most
melodies of the world tend to leap upwards and to
descend stepwise, as I think Curt Sachs already noted,
but I don't see why the leap should be from the final
(especially that it would have to be from an
intermediate final). On the other hand I know that music
does make use of conscious signaling, particularly in
ensemble singing, but I don't immediately see the reason
for this in the case of church modes.<br>
<br>
The second question that I have concerns the special
case of psalm antiphons: many of these are too short to
include any internal cadence, or upwards leaps of any
kind (unless at the very beginning, but then not always
upwards from the final). On the other hand, it is in
that case that the tonal centre may be of "vital
importance", as you write. I can see your point when
dealing with hymns, but there the question of joining
bits of music does not arise, I think.<br>
<br>
There are many subsidiary questions that immediately
arise:<br>
– I thought that the notion of "final" did not appear in
medieval theory before Hucbald, i.e. at a time when the
modes were close to being "turned into scales". Is your
hypothesis to be linked with the interval between final
and tenor (reciting tone)?
<br>
– The joining of antiphons with psalm verses concerns
not only the end of the antiphon and the beginning of
the psalm tone (which very much involves the final as
tonal centre), but also the end of the tone with the
beginning of the antiphon, which depends on the
particular differentia used.<br>
– Did you consider what Jacques de Liège (and others,
probably) had to say of melodies which did not end on
their proper final because of a mistake of the singers,
who ended on one of the affinals? Would these cases
concern melodies lacking the upwards leap that you
describe?<br>
– Etc., but these will suffice for the time being.<br>
<br>
I presume that the upwards leaps that you describe could
often be from the final to the reciting note, what may
suffice as justification/explanation, and which may link
to the later theory of fifth and fourth species. But
</font><font face="Calibri"><font face="Calibri">does not
this raise a question of chronology (considering the
theory of "cordes mères", of tenor and final at first
not being distinct)?</font> I'd very much like to hear
your opinion about all this.<br>
<br>
Nicolas Meeùs<br>
Université Paris-Sorbonne<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 26/08/2013 10:49, Fiona
McAlpine a écrit :<br>
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<span class="Apple-style-span"><span
class="Apple-style-span">Coming back to Nicolas'
earlier point about the 'church' modes being not
just scales but collections of melodic formulae:
in the absence of any harmonic underpinning,
these melodic formulae also had to define the
tonal centre in a world where the tonal centre was
of vital importance because most of your musical
activity consisted of joining discrete bits of
music to each other (I'm talking abut monks
joining antiphons to psalm tones, which Nicolas
touched on). Those modes were there, and organised
thus in relation to tonal centre, from perhaps
mid-ninth century (Aurelian), long before they got
turned into scales (let's say before the point of
reference for </span>most of the readers </span>of
these pages<span class="Apple-style-span">, Guido in
the early eleventh century). There is a technique by
which medieval musicians achieved this
tonal-centredness, given that all medieval modes
used the same diatonic collection: leaps upwards
from the final in an essentially stepwise melodic
world. Forgive the self-puffery, but for further
collaboration see my book
<i>Tonal Consciousness & the Medieval West</i>.
<div>
<div><br>
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