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<div style="" class="">In response to Carson Farley's inquiry regarding the possible relation
between elements of the overtone series and the ability of the "blue
note" to function in both major and minor:</div><div style="" class=""><br></div>
<div style="" class=""><span class="" style="color:black">I have always
had a problem with scale- or tuning-based interpretations of musical resources
and processes, a trap many music theorists tend to fall into. Why? Because they
are non-dialectical, and for me music is through and through based on
dialectical processes and <span style="" class=""><i style="" class="">not </i></span>simply
the following of certain procedures and rule<span style="" class="">s.</span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: italic;" class=""><span class="" style="color:black"><span style="" class=""> </span></span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span class="" style="color:black">The attempt to account for Stravinsky's harmonic
practice by pointing to his use of the octatonic scale is a good example. The
problem here is not simply that attempts at analysis along such lines tend to
stretch the definition of "octatonic" to the breaking point, but primarily
that a non-dialectical approach can tell us only a very little about what is
really going on in such works. For me, the older view, based on polarization, remains
the most promising approach, as it reflects what I hear as the highly
dialectical nature of his tonal language.</span></div><div style="color: black; font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=""><span class="" style="color:black"><br></span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span class="" style="color:black">Returning to Farley’s query, the emergence of the “blue
note” is in my view best explained according to a historical process that is,
at heart, dialectical (also noted by the ethnomusicologist </span><span class="" style="color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-bidi-font-weight:bold" lang="EN">Gerhard
Kubik, in his book, <i class="" style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Africa and the Blues</i>).
What we find in some of the earliest examples of “country blues,” is in many
cases almost indistinguishable from certain practices commonly found among
Bantu peoples in Africa. And, as in so many (though certainly not all) African
melodies, we tend to find melodies based, essentially, on pentatonic scales. <br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=""><span class="" style="color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-bidi-font-weight:bold" lang="EN"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=""><span class="" style="color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-bidi-font-weight:bold" lang="EN">The
guitar accompaniment is often only a single major chord, which functions almost
like a drone. As blues musicians gradually adapt to the standards of the
popular music of the time, the two other primary “common practice” chords, the major
subdominant and major dominant, are added, but the pentatonic melodies often
remain. </span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span class="" style="color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-bidi-font-weight:
bold" lang="EN"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=""><span class="" style="color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-bidi-font-weight:
bold" lang="EN">For example, a melody accompanied by triads drawn from C major, may be
based on the pentatonic C, Eb, F, G, Bb. In such cases, Eb and Bb can be understood simply as “blue
notes” in the context of C major. And if we are content to analyze simply in terms of a scale, it would be C, D, Eb, E, F, G, Bb, B. However, such an “analysis”
would tell us little or nothing about how this music was actually constructed,
or in fact heard by the musicians who produced the style in the first place. <br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=""><span class="" style="color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-bidi-font-weight:
bold" lang="EN"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=""><span class="" style="color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-bidi-font-weight:
bold" lang="EN">The historical explanation, on the other hand, makes it clear that in the blues we are
dealing with a dialectical process in which two very different musical cultures
encounter and enrich one another. As I see it, the notion of a “blue note” is a
sort of copout, as is the usual explanation of the tonic with added minor seventh, so common in the blues, simply as V of IV. If you hear the music in such
terms you are missing the dialectical “frisson” produced by the clash of two
different tonal realms, emanating from two different musical cultures.</span></div>
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<![endif]--><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal"><br style="" class=""><span style="" class=""></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal"><span style="" class=""><br style="" class=""></span></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div class="" style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 14pt"> <div class="" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt"> <div style="" class="" dir="ltr"> <font style="" class="" face="Arial" size="2"> On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 7:07 AM, Nicolas Meeùs <nicolas.meeus@scarlet.be> wrote:<br style="" class=""> </font> </div> <blockquote class="" style=""> <div
style="" class=""><div style="" class="" id="yiv2577784830"><div style="" class="">
<font style="" class="" face="Calibri">One must realize that harmonic partials (or
partials in general) are "notes" (or pitches) only in a metaphoric
way. I am surprised to read, in a research that I am running just
now about the German concept of <i style="" class="">Klang</i>, that the opinion
(of Helmholtz, Riemann, Schenker, Schoenberg, etc.) was that
harmonics could normally <u style="" class="">not</u> be heard – an opinion that
would hardly be shared today.<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
One may suppose that 'spectral' music, a music that seeks to
replicate the spectrum of harmonic sounds in distinct pitch
classes, expects the hearer to (consciously or not) reconstruct,
or recognize the spectrum. A certain level of approximation must
be allowed, not only because the music is tempered, but also
because the pitch classes cannot all be in the correct octave
(partial 10 and 12 are more than three octaves above their
fundamental). This approximation probably consist in a tolerance
of our hearing, as already noted by Euler in the 18th century.<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
It is a simple matter to calculate the exact position in cents of
each of the harmonic partials. The formula is log(<i style="" class="">x</i>)*1200/log(2),
where <i style="" class="">x</i> is the number of the partial. The formula can be
written as such in an Excel spreadsheet (if you want to
permanently make this a function available in your spreadsheet,
read <a style="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" target="_blank" href="http://www.plm.paris-sorbonne.fr/Convertisseur-de-Cents">http://www.plm.paris-sorbonne.fr/Convertisseur-de-Cents</a>).
Partial 10 is 3986 cents, 12 is 4302 cents above their
fundamental. Remove 3600 cents to account for the three octaves,
their value in cent is 386 (a pure major third) and 702 (a pure
fifth) above the fundamental. This evidences that what you call
partial 10 and partial 12 are in fact partials 11 and 13 – note
that the fundamental itself is its own first partial.<br style="" class="" clear="none">
For 11 and 13, the values are 4151 and 4441, i.e. 451 and 841
after correction for the three octaves. For C as fundamental
(partial 1), this is 51 cents above F, and 59 cents below A
respectively. Keep in mind that a tempered semitone is by
definition 100 cents (this is the definition of the cent, not of
the semitone). Partial 11 is thus very slightly </font><font style="" class="" face="Calibri">(1 cent) </font><font style="" class="" face="Calibri">more than
halfway between F and F#, partial 13 is more decidedly on the side
of Ab.<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
After that, how you make use of these, as approximations of what
pitch classes, is your choice as composer or as theorician. Note
in addition that the instruments for which you write probably are
slightly inharmonic, but in a hardly predictable way, which leaves
you with even more freedom to analyze your scales. Partial 11
could probably be used as approximation of both F and F#, and
partial 13, even although closer to Ab, probably would form an
acceptable approximation to A.<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Nicolas Meeùs<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Professeur émérite<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Université Paris-Sorbonne<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<a style="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" ymailto="mailto:nicolas.meeus@scarlet.be" target="_blank" href="mailto:nicolas.meeus@scarlet.be">nicolas.meeus@scarlet.be</a><br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
</font>
<div style="" class="">Le 23/04/2014 06:12, CARSON FARLEY a
écrit :<br style="" class="" clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="" class="" type="cite">
<style style="" class="" type="text/css">#yiv2577784830 p {margin:0;}</style>
<div style="" class="" id="yiv2577784830yqt82319"><div class="" style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">Hello Everyone,</div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"> </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">I'm a new
member of SMT. I am a composer/musician who studied music
theory at the University of Washington. I use the harmonic
overtone series in a lot of my compositional work and I have
encountered a variety of different partial interpretations for
specifically [with C as the fundamental] partials no. 10 and
12 - the pitches F or F# and A or Ab. </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"> <br style="" class="" clear="none">
</div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">C-C-G-C-E-G-Bb-C-D-E-[<b style="" class="">F
or F#</b>]-G-[<b style="" class="">Ab or A</b>]-Bb-B-C</div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"> </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">I have seen at
least three different interpretations. In Schoenberg's <i style="" class="">Theory
of Harmony</i>, Schoenberg references the tones as F and A.
In <i style="" class="">The Book Of Music edited by Gill Rowley</i> the
partials are listed as F# and A. And from internet research I
have seen the partials referenced as either F/F# and Ab. I
understand that the reason for the variation is most likely
related to the non tempered pitch of those partials and that
their pitch may lie somewhere between an F and F# and an Ab
and A (taking into account the non tempered frequency of all
the partials). I'm wondering if there is more consensus among
the theory group about whether in the above overtone series
[if arranged as scale with C as the root] C-D-E-?-G-?-Bb-B-C
as to the fourth and sixth degrees? </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"> </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">The reason this
is important to me besides the compositional implications of
creating scales from overtone structure is a hypothesis/theory
I have regarding the jazz/blues scale and it's ability to
function with either major or minor diatonic tonalities. When
the above scale [which I call the overtone scale] is arranged
as the 5th mode:</div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"> </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">G-A-Bb-B-C-D-E-F#-G </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"> </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">There is a
scale with both minor and major 3rd [a blue note] . . . and if
we use the partial variation with F we are ever closer to the
flat 7th character of the blues scale:</div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"> </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">G-Bb-C-C#-D-F-G</div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"> </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">This is my
explanation for why the blues scale works with both major and
minor modes. I'd be curious to get some feedback on my idea
and more specifically the partials above in question. </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"> </div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">Thanks,</div>
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">Carsonics</div>
</div></div>
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
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<div style="" class="" align="left">Aucun virus
trouvé dans ce message.<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Analyse effectuée par AVG - <a style="" class="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.avg.fr/">www.avg.fr</a><br style="" class="" clear="none">
Version: 2014.0.4569 / Base de données virale: 3882/7378 - Date:
22/04/2014</div>
</blockquote>
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
</div></div><br style="" class=""><div style="" class="" id="yqt55231">_______________________________________________<br style="" class="" clear="none">Smt-talk mailing list<br style="" class="" clear="none"><a style="" class="" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org" href="mailto:Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org">Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org</a><br style="" class="" clear="none"><a style="" class="" shape="rect" href="http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org" target="_blank">http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org</a><br style="" class="" clear="none"></div><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""></div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>