<html><body><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>Stephen's comment about "terrain" reminded me of the most difficult pedagogical challenge I ever faced -- when I was in grad school, I was asked to help a "native" harpist -- one whose only contact with music performance had been on a chromatic pedal harp -- with basic theory concepts. This student had no concept of, for example, Db-F# being a "larger" third than D-F -- for this student, accidentals were merely markers for setting pedals correctly, rather than having any effect on the distance between notes.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't think that using a keyboard is a sign that we're trying to turn all musicians into keyboardists -- it's a fast, relatively compact way to foster an association between distances in frequency and physical distances, one which happens more effectively in some non-keyboard performance situations than in others.</div><div><br></div><div>Jonathan Santore</div><div>Plymouth State University (NH)</div><div><br></div><hr id="zwchr"><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #1010FF;margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;" data-mce-style="border-left: 2px solid #1010FF; margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px; color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">It is all about terrain. Depending on what instrument you play, your understanding of harmony comes from the field in which you play. Guitarists have a terrain that involves six strings tuned in a strangely wonderful way, bass players have four strings tuned in fourths, trumpet players go up and down on three pistons, and piano players have that field of blacks and whites. Jazz and rock drummers play no pitches and travel through a time continuum bathed in harmony coming from the nearby amps.<div><br></div><div>Many guitarists have difficulty converting from tablature to piano notation. A few of them succeed and become college professors of Schenkerian analysis or post-tonal note counting for reasons no one can explain!</div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; " data-mce-style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><span><b style="font-size: 12px; " data-mce-style="font-size: 12px;">Dr. Stephen Jablonsky, Ph.D.</b></span></div><div style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; " data-mce-style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><b style="font-size: 12px; " data-mce-style="font-size: 12px;">Music Department Chair</b></div><div style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; " data-mce-style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><b style="font-size: 12px; " data-mce-style="font-size: 12px;">The City College of New York</b></div><div style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; " data-mce-style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><b style="font-size: 12px; " data-mce-style="font-size: 12px;">Shepard Hall Room 72</b></div><div style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-size: medium; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; " data-mce-style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-size: medium; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><b style="font-size: 12px; " data-mce-style="font-size: 12px;">New York NY 10031</b></div><div style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; " data-mce-style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><b style="font-size: 12px; " data-mce-style="font-size: 12px;">(212) 650-7663</b></div><div style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; " data-mce-style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><span><b style="font-size: 12px; " data-mce-style="font-size: 12px;"><a href="mailto:music@ccny.cuny.edu" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:music@ccny.cuny.edu">music@ccny.cuny.edu</a></b></span></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; " data-mce-style="font-family: Helvetica; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div><span face="Copperplate" data-mce-style="font-family: Copperplate;" style="font-family: Copperplate;"><span style="font-size: 12px; " data-mce-style="font-size: 12px;">America's Greatest Chair </span></span></div><div><span face="Copperplate" data-mce-style="font-family: Copperplate;" style="font-family: Copperplate;"><span style="font-size: 12px; " data-mce-style="font-size: 12px;">in the low-priced field</span></span></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br><div><div>On May 5, 2014, at 11:06 PM, Zachary Cairns <<a href="mailto:zacharycairns@gmail.com" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:zacharycairns@gmail.com">zacharycairns@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote><div dir="ltr"><div><div>><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" data-mce-style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Guitarists are just ahead of drummers in their inability to comfortably deal with the challenges of traditional music theory. There is no way around it—you have to have keyboard chops</span></div><div><span face="arial, sans-serif" data-mce-style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br></span>I understand that this is tongue-in-cheek, but as a former teenage percussionist/metal-guitarist-wannabe, I can say from experience that there *is* a way around it. I recall class after class of my undergrad theory experience thinking, "Oh, *that's* what Yngwie/Vai/Satriani was doing..."</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Zac</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>_______________________________</div><div>Zachary Cairns, Ph.D.</div><div>Assistant Professor of Music Theory</div><div>Associate Music Department Chair</div><div>University of Missouri - St. Louis</div><div><a href="mailto:cairnsz@umsl.edu" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:cairnsz@umsl.edu">cairnsz@umsl.edu</a></div><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Smt-talk mailing list<br>Smt-talk@lists.societymusictheory.org<br>http://lists.societymusictheory.org/listinfo.cgi/smt-talk-societymusictheory.org<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div></body></html>