[Smt-talk] I-II-IV as a progression

[Dave Headlam]

Hi all (as I was writing this Nicole's post came on which I agree with):

Playing guitar "in the box" (such as A-B-D-E) -- by rock guys or gals --
provides for many motions of bass 1-2-4-5, whether or not under I-II-IV-V,
and/or other SDs and in complete or incomplete forms:   for instance, in
Zep's "Living Loving Maid "  (bVII-I-bIII from G-A-C) (cf. B section of
"Sunshine of your Love":  A-C-G as (V-bVII-IV of D),  Beatles "Back in the
USSR"  partial box (G)-A-C-D as I-bIII-IV (which then goes to V), and/or as
in Stevie Ray Vaughn's "Cold Shot" ( box G-A-C-D ) as b7 - 1 - b3 - 4
(I-bVII-ii-I   A- G- A - (D-F#-B)- (C-E-A) maybe the way SR plays it on the
top four strings, he's also down a half-step).  Also Pink Floyd's lick
G-A-B-D-E and chords (G) C D Am G D C Am G ((I)-IV-V- ii-I-V-IV-ii-I) in
"Wish you were here" fall into this category - - and Stormy Monday has the
best II chord action in a blues (Allman Bros version), it is thwarted in
it's desire to go to V by the power of IV . .  (or, as Steve hears it, II
makes a V out of IV). Or not.

The "box" 0257 predates rock, of course, as in I got Rhythm changes
(I-vi-ii-V) Bb-G-C-F in Bb, and A Train (I-ii-IV-V), C-D-G-C-  - F-D-G- C

So, lots of possibilities . . .

G-A-C-D  as I-ii-IV-V (G), ii-iii-V-vi (F), III-iv-vi-VII (e minor/E major),
IV-V-bVII-I (D), V-vi-I-ii  ( C), bVII-I-bIII-IV (Am).

DH - (back to class prep -- bummer, summer is over)


On 8/30/09 8:01 PM, "Dmitri Tymoczko" <dmitri at Princeton.EDU> wrote:

>> I agree with Dmitri that I-II-IV is probably "indigenous to rock,"
>> and that it often sounds similar to other progressions that move
>> (rootwise) along the pentatonic scale (and accordingly sound
>> "bluesy").
>> 
>> However, I think that the indigenous-ness of I-II-IV to the rock
>> idiom can better be explained by guitar chord shapes and the
>> importance of the guitar in rock composition. Guitar-influenced
>> tonal practice, of course, also dominates many styles of classic and
>> contemporary blues, but has not resulted (as far as I know) in any
>> blues songs featuring I-II-IV (or transposed versions such as bVII-I-
>> bIII).
> 
> I'm not sure this is necessarily such a different theory -- perhaps
> rock guys got used to playing parallel ascending-thirds triads on the
> guitar and so started throwing them into functional contexts.  The key
> question is whether bVII-I-bIII precedes I-II-IV.  If so, then our
> stories might be pretty much the same.
> 
> BTW, an interesting song in this context is Nirvana's "Lithium," which
> begins with a straightforward tonal progression I-iii-vi-IV and then
> grafts on a little blues riff IV-bVI-bVII, ending with the V.  I doubt
> anyone would bat an eye at the thought that this song fuses
> functionally tonal harmonies with a parallel bluesish progression.
> What I'm wondering is whether I-II-IV might be an early example of the
> same sort of thing.
> 
> Another thought is just that I-II-IV is one of the closest
> approximations to I-V7/V-ii7 that uses only triads.  (I.e. we have
> here Rameau's "double emploi" in reverse!)
> 
> Or if we really want to be responsible, we could even propose that the
> progression works for any number of different reasons, all of which
> might have contributed to its acceptance by musicians and listeners.
> 
> DT
> 
> BTW, I wouldn't be totally shocked to find I-II-IV in some kind of New
> Orleans jazz context.  I can almost hear it in my mind's ear, can you?
> 
> Dmitri Tymoczko
> Associate Professor of Music
> 310 Woolworth Center
> Princeton, NJ 08544-1007
> (609) 258-4255 (ph), (609) 258-6793 (fax)
> http://music.princeton.edu/~dmitri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> rg

-- 

 Dave Headlam
 Professor of Music Theory
 Joint Professor of Electrical Engineering
 
 Eastman School of Music
 26 Gibbs St
 Rochester, NY 14604
 (585) 274-1568 office
 dheadlam at esm.rochester.edu
 http://theory.esm.rochester.edu/dave_headlam