[Smt-talk] Fwd: Abbreviated Labels of Seventh Chords
Donna Doyle
donnadoyle at att.net
Mon Feb 13 06:06:25 PST 2012
> Re (In alphabetical order):
>
> The aug 6 (Dec discussion)
>
> A more apt designation for "swiss" might be the situation where the
> melody traverses all three character tones
> of the "chords", e. g., K 333, I, m 80 (Bb-A-G over Eb and C#),
> Haydn H XVI: 27, I, (same ptiches) and many
> other exx.
>
> Boulanger's figured bass
>
> This system of doing "free tonal counterpoint" (as N Meeus has aptly
> described it) is distinctly different from realizing
> basso continuo (even though it was considered by her an aspect of
> Accompaniment). It's a composition method
> teaching one how to weave the warp and woof of sound, ultimately in
> any style, and is best suited for students
> already grounded in harmony.
>
>
> The cadential 6/4
>
> When the bass ascends the scale from T through S to D, it makes
> little sense to me that, upon reaching the ^5,
> the other voices would sound T above it. This reminds me of Terry
> Southern's '60s satirical novelette, "Candy":
> An American young woman travels to Tibet seeking a guru. Upon
> reaching the top of his mountain and meeting
> him face to face, she exclaims, "Daddy!"
>
>
> For Ildar
>
> We know that CPE lacked his father's genius. And I understand that a
> faulty Rameau translation was partly
> the cause of his dislike of what he thought were Rameau's ideas. As
> for his quirky fantasias, do we throw out
> Fetis' contributions to the study of harmony because of some of his
> compositions' syntax?
>
>
>
> Best,
> Donna Doyle
> Queens College CUNY
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2012, at 8:33 PM, Ildar Khannanov wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dear List,
>> I am puzzled by this vehement defense of Schenker, "figured bass"
>> and “counterpoint” against the theory of harmonic functions. Is
>> there something important at stake?
>> The arguments like “point-by-point’ chord definitions" are quite
>> old. They remind me another one, “the gloves do not fit.” Yes, the
>> theory of tonal-harmonic functions implies that chords in a
>> harmonic progression must have functions and they have to be heard.
>> I just do not understand why it is necessary to disregard them, or
>> even throw them away in order to understand musical meaning of the
>> progression. Do you normally throw away the words from the sentence
>> in order to understand it? So, if I say: “I do not like potato
>> salad” you need to reduce it to “I like the potato salad,” or “I
>> like the potato,” or, even, “I am the potato?” How do you know,
>> which notes to eliminate, beside the claim that there is a
>> mysterious Urlinie—a claim, which is impossible to substantiate?
>> Concerning the theory of harmonic functions and the French
>> tradition, I find it fascinating how Schenkerians, obsessed with
>> revenge to European tradition of the 19th century, just as their
>> teacher, tend to read texts selectively, omitting the paragraphs
>> containing the undesirable information. However, if they took time
>> and read slowly, say, Fétis’ famous treatise on harmony, they would
>> find the following:
>> “Je demandai quels accords existent par eux-mêmes, comme de
>> conséquences de tonalité actuelle, indépendamment de toute
>> circonstance de modification, et je n’en trouvait que deux: le
>> premier consonant, compose de trois sons, et appelé accord parfait;
>> le deuxième dissonant, composé de quatre sons placés à des
>> intervalles de tierces l’un de l’autre, et appelé accord de
>> septième de dominante. Je vis que le premier constitue le repos
>> dans l’harmonie, parce que lors-qu’il se fait entendre, rien
>> n’indique la nécessité de succession; l’autre, au contraire, est
>> attractif, par la mise en relation de certains sons de la gamme;
>> par cela même il a des tendances de résolution, et il caractérise
>> le movement dans l’harmonie.
>> [] l’isolement absolu me permettait de me livrer sans distraction à
>> mes rêveries sur la théorie de l’harmonie. Après avoir fixé le
>> caractère et les fonctions des deux accords consonant et dissonant,
>> je cherchai avec soin si quelque autre aggrégation harmonique était
>> nécessaire pour constituer la tonalite; mais je n’en pus découvrir,
>> et j’acquis la conviction que tous les autres accords sont des
>> modifications de ceux-là, et que leur destination est de jeter de
>> la variété dans les forms de l’harmonie, ou d’établir des relations
>> de gammes différentes.”
>> François-Joseph Fétis, Traité complet de la théorie et de la
>> pratique de l’harmonie, http://books.google.com/books, 1853, page
>> viij.
>> The terms in italics are carefully copied by Fetis from Rameau’s
>> Traité de l’harmonie. In fact, these two paragraph provide a better
>> definition of the concept of harmonic function than the texts of
>> Rameau. They are tied to the interpretation of tonality. Thus, this
>> is the theory of tonal-harmonic functions, advocated by one of the
>> most brilliant French theorists of the 19th century who also taught
>> at the Conservatoire. Riemann considered him one of his most
>> important influences.
>> Theoretical position of Fétis does not support Schenkerian
>> revisionism at all. It supports Rameau and Riemann. I can provide
>> the documented evidence that Simon Sechter (who alledgedly created
>> or supported a teaching of scale steps, alternative to Rameau-
>> Riemann’s functions) fully supported functional theory. There are
>> many statements in Kirnberger which show profound understanding of
>> Rameau’s contribution.
>> I do not know what Nadya was teaching. The CPE’s libel of Rameau
>> present little interest. In fact, his Versuch is not a book on
>> counterpoint and voice leading. Again, this is a common
>> misconception (just as Zarlino did not write a book On
>> Counterpoint; it was a subtitle of a 4-volume treatise on harmony,
>> called Institutione harmonische). CPE’s book is about musical
>> emotions and the task of a performer. As such—a rare topic,
>> preceded, perhaps, only by Tinctoris’s Compendium. As for CPE’s
>> recommendations concerning voice leading, I would not recommend any
>> sane composer to follow them. His contemporaries had the reason to
>> doubt his sanity precisely because his harmonic progressions in
>> Fantasias and Rondos did not carry syntactic unity.
>> J.S. Bach was the first composer to fully realize tonal-harmonic
>> function and functional syntax in music. I can write another email
>> about that.
>> K6/4 is a smaller fish, comparing to these issues.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ildar Khannanov
>> Peabody Conservatory
>> Solfeggio7 at yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> From: Nicolas Meeùs <nicolas.meeus at paris-sorbonne.fr>
>> To: smt-talk <smt-talk at societymusictheory.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 1:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Abbreviated Labels of Seventh Chords
>>
>> It occurred to me also that some of Catel's notation can be found
>> in CPE Bach – with important differences, though. CPE's 4+ is a 4
>> with an extended horizontal line and a stripe crossing it. Catel
>> writes +4, or even such combinations as +/2 (meaning +4/2) or +/4/3
>> (obviously for +6/4/3). Both CPE and Catel use 2 alone to refer to
>> the third inversion of a seventh which is not a dominant. For the
>> diminished 5th, CPE writes 5b; barred figures for him usually
>> indicate raised intervals and his 4+ may be a mere barred (i.e.
>> raised) 4. (On the other hand my cursory glance through the Versuch
>> did not allow me to find a barred 5). For Catel, on the other hand,
>> a barred figure is a diminished interval.
>> I believe that Catel's intention was to specifically indicate
>> one or the other note of the augmented 4th/diminished 5th
>> characteristic of the dominant, by either a + or a barred 5. This
>> was never stated, that I know, neither by him nor by his followers;
>> but the Paris Conservatoire makes such a point to distinguish the
>> "natural" (dominant) seventh from any other ("septièmes d'espèce")
>> that the intention, conscious or not, seems unescapable.
>>
>> Writing harmony in open score and C clefs (more precisely, chiavi
>> naturali) was standard practice in the Conservatoire. We still did
>> that in the Brussels Conservatoire during my studies (hum! some
>> time ago...), working the basses and sopranos given at late-19th-
>> century final exams in the Paris Conservatoire. For us, at least,
>> voice-leading considerations were indeed paramount, but boiled down
>> to avoiding parallel or "hidden" fifths and octaves. There was no
>> question of melodic fluency (on the contrary: the exercises often
>> requested tricky voice movements). We did try imitations (which the
>> exercises often made possible). I always had the feeling that our
>> classes were not in harmony, but in some kind of free tonal
>> counterpoint, a counterpoint that reduced to avoiding parallels
>> (one never spoke of good or bad successions of chords, my teacher
>> and most of my colleagues students new nothing of harmonic
>> functions, nor even of Roman numerals).
>>
>> Nadia Boulanger's teaching of harmony does not seem very different
>> from that. I presume that she was able to turn to musical advantage
>> what in our case sounded musical nonsense. What we did had no style
>> at all, and was not meant to; but it did more than earning us the
>> right to be free, it also shew us how to be free and really gave us
>> a facility of writing. A lot is done today in the Conservatoire to
>> learn writing "in the style of", to write pastiches "à la Fauré",
>> "à la Debussy", "à la Messiaen", etc. This may give the students
>> the (false) impression of writing "real" music, but certainly does
>> not help understanding what the Masters did (one does not write "à
>> la Beethoven", that I know: it would be too difficult).
>>
>> Nicolas Meeùs
>> Université Paris-Sorbonne
>>
>>
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