[Smt-talk] Craig's List

[Stephen Jablonsky]

Unfortunately, there is no algorithm for good taste, and that is what separates the good composers from the great. I have never had any difficulty explaining the mechanisms of music composition. It is the moments of magic that leave me speechless.


Dr. Stephen Jablonsky, Ph.D.
Music Department Chair
The City College of New York
Shepard Hall Room 72
New York NY 10031
(212) 650-7663
music at ccny.cuny.edu




On Apr 29, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Ciro Scotto <ciro.scotto7 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> First, the question posed to the list asked if there were any computer programs that can write conventional fugues. I simply provided one example without any judgements of the quality of the algorithms or their product. My mention of Sibelius notation software was simply to highlight the increasing pervasiveness of machine composition. My comment about John Henry was more forward looking. As machine composition becomes more common, I can eventually see a Turing test for music being developed. Is it human or is it Apple?
> 
> It seems to me that as music theorists what we mostly do is evaluate the "output" of human systems without a real understanding of the system. We judge pieces to be "good" without adequately understanding the system or algorithms that created them. We analyze pieces to find these systems and discuss the validity of a proposed system. If we adequately understood those systems, we could simply provide our students with the algorithms. No need for Craig's List.
> 
> All the best, 
> 
> Ciro 
> 
> 
> Dr. Ciro G. Scotto             
> Assistant Professor of Music Theory  
> University of South Florida       
> home:    (813) 443-6801
> e-mail: 
> cscotto1 at usf.edu
> cscotto at tampabay.rr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 29, 2013, at 7:52 PM, Andie Sigler wrote:
> 
>> Cope wrote several books about his programs without conveying enough information to make any real use of his ideas. He failed to advance the state of knowledge in the field of computational music generation. A review can be found in Tom Collins' PhD thesis. (http://www.tomcollinsresearch.net/publications.html) This includes an analysis of a Cope (EMI) piece revealed to be a Chopin piece with some notes erased and new notes filled in. 
>> 
>> Studying Cope's algorithms, which unfortunately are not available for study, would be (at best) a study of how to chop up pieces and put parts together in a different order. I would rather a deeper study of invention and thinking with basic musical materials.
>> 
>> I think there are fundamental problems that haven't been solved nearly as much as some people think. The field of computational music generation is still very young, and evaluation methodologies for *systems* aren't in place -- essentially: evaluating just the *output* of systems without a real understanding of the system is inadequate (e.g. for some of the reasons described in this and my earlier post).
>> 
>> Andie
>> 
>> 
>> On 29 April 2013 09:18, Ciro Scotto <ciro.scotto7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> David Cope has programs/algorithms that write inventions and fugues. Even better than studying the algorithms, would be creating them. Even Sibelius notation software has some rudimentary composition algorithms. We are almost at the point where a modern version of the John Henry folktale will be needed. Here is a link to some material:
>> 
>> http://www.computermusicjournal.org/reviews/29-1/handelman-cope.html
>> 
>> All the best, 
>> 
>> Ciro
>> 
>> Dr. Ciro G. Scotto             
>> Assistant Professor of Music Theory  
>> University of South Florida       
>> home:    (813) 443-6801
>> e-mail: 
>> cscotto1 at usf.edu
>> cscotto at tampabay.rr.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 1:48 AM, Isaac Malitz wrote:
>> 
>>> Aren't there computer programs that can write conventional fugues?
>>> If so, then what is the point of a student writing a conventional fugue as an excercise?
>>> Wouldn't it be more useful for a student to study the algorithms that can generate a conventional fugue?
>>> 
>>> (I think the above are very interesting questions)
>>> 
>>> Isaac Malitz, Ph.D.
>>> imalitz at omsmodel.com
>>> www.OMSModel.com
>>> 818-231-3965
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> This notice on Craig's List was brought to my attention:
>>>> 
>>>> "I am willing to pay $50 on paypal for a someone who has advanced classical composition skills to write my final project for my Counterpoint II class. It is two sections of an invention including the exposition and episodes and modulation. It would need to be done on finale or cyballius.
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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