[Smt-talk] Fwd: First Species Question

[Donna Doyle]

> Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] First Species Question
>
> Dear Dmitri:
>
> David Boyden's A Manual of Counterpoint (Carl Fischer 1944, -53, and  
> still in print in the '90s) advises against even "two
> consecutive perfect consonances" (octave to fifth incl) (p. 13), on  
> the grounds that "the harmonic effect is too thin in two-parts."
>
> Salzer-Schachter calls the fifths you illustrate "anti-parallel" (p.  
> 18) and advises against them not only for their parallel fifth-ness
> but also for "the simultaneous occurrence of leaps." S-S approve,  
> however, of contrary 8 to 5.
>
> Your 3-voice ex below seems to show the fifths in two different  
> pairs of voices. If my reading is correct, then there's no problem.
>
> Re examples from the literature: since most Renaissance lines move  
> mostly by step, with one voice 'holding down the fort'
> when the other does leap, I doubt if there are many instances.
>
> My own take on this (I've taught counterpoint for 20 yrs, first at  
> the Manhattan School and now at Queens College, and, also,
> I sing alto in the choir at the Cathedral of St John the Divine in  
> NYC): fifths are (and sound like) fifths, no matter what registers
> they're in. Consider choral writing of any century--sometimes  
> singers (esp basses) are told to take the higher or lower octave,
> depending on their voice range. So switching the register for one of  
> your voices is not going to hide your fifths! I suspect the
> writers you list below take this understanding for granted.
>
> Best regards,
> Donna Doyle
>
> Aaron Copland School of Music
> Queens College
> 65-30 Kissena Blvd.
> Flushing, NY  11367
>
> tele: 718-997-3819
> fax:  718-997-3849
> email: donna.doyle at qc.cuny.edu
> email: donnadoyle at att.net
>
>
> _____________________
>
> On Jul 6, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Dmitri Tymoczko wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Recently I found myself looking through various first-species  
>> counterpoint rules and I noticed that neither Fux nor Jeppeson nor  
>> Gauldin prohibits consecutive (contrary motion) fifths in first- 
>> species counterpoint:
>>
>> 	e.g. (C4, G4)->(F3, C5) or (C4, G4)->(C5, F4)
>>
>> This led me to two questions:
>>
>> 	1) Does anyone know of a set of first-species rules that *does*  
>> prohibit consecutive fifths of this sort?  In particular, what's  
>> the earliest treatment of the issue?
>> 	2) Can anyone think of any examples, preferably in two voices and  
>> from some Josquin-to-Lassus Renaissance master, of this sort of  
>> thing?
>>
>> I can think of examples of consecutive fifths in three separate  
>> voices, as in (C3, G3, x) -> (D3, x, A3), but that's not as dramatic.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> DT
>>
>> Dmitri Tymoczko
>> Associate Professor of Music
>> 310 Woolworth Center
>> Princeton, NJ 08544-1007
>> (609) 258-4255 (ph), (609) 258-6793 (fax)
>> http://music.princeton.edu/~dmitri
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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