[Smt-talk] Smt-talk Digest, Vol 33, Issue 8

Richard Cohn richard.cohn at yale.edu
Fri Oct 7 12:19:15 PDT 2011 

in re. Scott Murphy's inquiry, minor-mode department, a real classic: 
Schubert's Auf dem Flusse.

--Rick Cohn


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Looking for a chord progression (donnadoyle)
>    2. FW:  More "Neighboring" 6/4 (Phillip Dineen)
>    3. Re: Looking for a chord progression (Nicole Biamonte)
>    4. Re: Looking for a chord progression (Jon Wild)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 10:42:42 -0400
> From: donnadoyle <donnadoyle at att.net>
> To: "Murphy, Scott Brandon" <smurphy at ku.edu>
> Cc: SMT Talk <smt-talk at societymusictheory.org>
> Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Looking for a chord progression
> Message-ID: <F5B23810-15FF-4C73-9C1C-F2851E462401 at att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii;	format=flowed;	delsp=yes
>
> Since the minor vii's ^#4 suggests the Lydian mode, you might look in  
> folk-inspired literature like the Chopin Mazurkas and the Bartok  
> Microkosmos.
> Best, Donna Doyle, Queens College, CUNY
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ---------------
>
> On Oct 7, 2011, at 12:00 AM, "Murphy, Scott Brandon" <smurphy at ku.edu>  
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Collective wisdom, do you know of, and, if so, are you willing to  
>> share, an example of a clear and deliberate CM: CM-Bm-CM progression  
>> or a transposition of such a progression in music after 1800 (double  
>> leading-tone cadences from the Medieval period need not apply)?   
>> Chordal inversion of any or all of these chords is fine.  A  
>> transposition of the minor version (Cm: Cm-Bm-Cm) would also be  
>> acceptable, as would the last two-thirds of either progression.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> --
>> Scott Murphy
>> Associate Professor, Music Theory
>> University of Kansas School of Music
>> smurphy at ku.edu
>>
>> P.S. I'm prepared to handle examples where a "neighborly" bass goes  
>> 1-2-1. :-)
>>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:44:48 +0000
> From: Phillip Dineen <pdineen at uottawa.ca>
> To: "smt-talk at lists.societymusictheory.org"
> 	<smt-talk at lists.societymusictheory.org>
> Subject: [Smt-talk] FW:  More "Neighboring" 6/4
> Message-ID:
> 	<60A251EE93643B4BBEE59220D1409C760505A35C at CMS-P03.uottawa.o.univ>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Not immediately pertinent to Matt's question, but perusing quickly Schoenberg's Harmonielehre, I note a truly curious instance of an "upper neighbouring" 6/4. This is example 62, no. 4, in A minor. The bass, starting on the second harmony of the example, is:
>
> ^#6   ^#7   ^#7  ^8    ^natural 7   ^natural 6
>
> The 6/4 chord in question is over the second #7. The progression being (as Schoenberg notes it in Stufen): IV6 VII (diminished seventh chord) III6/4 (augmented triad) VI6 III6/4 and VI.  So:
>
> ^#6, bass of IV6, F#
> ^#7, bass of VII, G#
> ^#7, bass of III6/4, G#
> ^8, bass of VI6, A
> ^7, bass of III6/4, G
> ^6, bass of VI, F
>
> Let us say, in non-Schoenbergian terms, that the G#'s and the G natural are upper neighbours to the F# and the F natural, and the G#'s are themselves prolonged by an upper neighbour A. This would be quite the reverse of what Matt is after it seems (sorry Matt).
>
> In Schoenbergian terms, the III6/4 over G# takes part in a process called "neutralization": the F# and G# are neutralized in the A before their cross-related counterparts G and F are heard. In this instance, the melodic aspect of neutralization might take precedence over any sense of dissonance inherent in the 6/4 structure of either III6/4. Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice said.
>
> Murray Dineen
> Universit? d'Ottawa
> pdineen at uottawa.ca<mailto:pdineen at uottawa.ca>
>
> ________________________________
> From: smt-talk-bounces at lists.societymusictheory.org [mailto:smt-talk-bounces at lists.societymusictheory.org] On Behalf Of Matt Bribitzer-Stull
> Sent: October 4, 2011 4:06 PM
> To: Society for Music Theory
> Subject: [Smt-talk] More "Neighboring" 6/4
>
> Dear Colleagues:
>
> I'm heartened to see the volume of dialogue my brief query has initiated. I must say, however, I'm not sure I've found among the many worthy musings a convincing answer to my original question. Perhaps there isn't one. At the risk of repeating myself, let me rephrase the question and append some relevant commentary from three of the responses to the SMT list below.
>
> Given that ^1-^2-^1 bass paradigms that expand tonic seem to be considerably rarer than either passing ^1-^2-^3 bass lines prolonging tonic or than ^1-^7-^1 and ^3-^4-^3 bass neighbor motions prolonging tonic for reasons many on this list have hypothesized, is it true that when ^1-^2-^1 bass lines prolonging tonic do occur, unaccented 6/4 chords above ^2 in the bass are rarer than other harmonizations of the same figure (say, with V 4/3 or vii65 chords), or is ^1-^2-^1 just such a rara avis that it almost never occurs as a tonic prolongation figure in common-practice music regardless of how it is harmonized? In either case, why? Is mode a factor? ... Matt
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 12:08:35 -0400
> From: Nicole Biamonte <nbiamonte at aya.yale.edu>
> To: SMT Talk <smt-talk at societymusictheory.org>
> Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Looking for a chord progression
> Message-ID:
> 	<CA+3PKRqw6awk=s4sxfxNSXv2SQfR0NT=YP5EfE0BHALEPYgOpw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I take it you're looking for the direct juxtaposition of these chords,
> rather than something like Schubert's "Auf dem Flusse," where Em and its
> dominant are juxtaposed against D#m and its dominant.
>
> The only example I can think of so far comes from popular music: the verses
> of Bruce Springsteen's "Last to Die"  begin with several oscillations
> between Cmaj7 and Bm.
>
> All best,
> Nicole Biamonte
> McGill University
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:42 AM, donnadoyle <donnadoyle at att.net> wrote:
>
>   
>> Since the minor vii's ^#4 suggests the Lydian mode, you might look in
>> folk-inspired literature like the Chopin Mazurkas and the Bartok
>> Microkosmos.
>> Best, Donna Doyle, Queens College, CUNY
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ---------------
>>
>>
>> On Oct 7, 2011, at 12:00 AM, "Murphy, Scott Brandon" <smurphy at ku.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Collective wisdom, do you know of, and, if so, are you willing to share,
>>     
>>> an example of a clear and deliberate CM: CM-Bm-CM progression or a
>>> transposition of such a progression in music after 1800 (double leading-tone
>>> cadences from the Medieval period need not apply)?  Chordal inversion of any
>>> or all of these chords is fine.  A transposition of the minor version (Cm:
>>> Cm-Bm-Cm) would also be acceptable, as would the last two-thirds of either
>>> progression.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Murphy
>>> Associate Professor, Music Theory
>>> University of Kansas School of Music
>>> smurphy at ku.edu
>>>
>>> P.S. I'm prepared to handle examples where a "neighborly" bass goes 1-2-1.
>>> :-)
>>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 13:27:20 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Jon Wild <wild at music.mcgill.ca>
> To: "Murphy, Scott Brandon" <smurphy at ku.edu>
> Cc: SMT Talk <smt-talk at societymusictheory.org>
> Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Looking for a chord progression
> Message-ID:
> 	<alpine.LRH.2.02.1110071153330.26939 at sound.music.mcgill.ca>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Fri, 7 Oct 2011, Murphy, Scott Brandon wrote:
>
>   
>> A transposition of the minor version (Cm: Cm-Bm-Cm) would also be 
>> acceptable, as would the last two-thirds of either progression.
>>     
>
> Root-position minor triads a semitone part are a staple of many recent 
> film scores attempting to evoke a sense of eery. Here's an example from 
> the Lord of the Rings soundtrack by Howard Shore; listen to the passage 
> starting at 1'38":
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ctOMWAZLw4
>
> We hear F#m - Fm - F#m - Fm.  (Also interesting here is the fact the 
> melody over the F#m has a #4 and a #3...)
>
> Jon Wild
> McGill University
>
>
>
>
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