[Smt-talk] Fwd: Pedal Point

Thu Feb 16 21:37:20 PST 2012

> Dear Dimitar,
>
> Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  After time to read it  
> carefully, I'll respond with more particulars.
>
> Perhaps--in my message to which you're replying--I spoke hastily,  
> assuming too much. The listening experience
> I was describing was hearing a new piece for the first time. (I  
> understood you to ask me how I hear the pedal point,
> not how I analyze it upon score study/ subsequent hearing.)  
> Moreover, I didn't mean to entirely dismiss hearing
> upper registers. For me, upper registers impinge themselves on my  
> consciousness more easily, so I focus
> my attention on the bass, to even up the score, so to speak. Of  
> course, the bass is part of the total fabric.
> And, as I said, the bass gives me more information with which to  
> grasp the piece as a whole entity. Surely, upon
> examination, details come into focus.
>
> As for your Schumann ex, I would probably hear the period above the  
> bass straightaway--be able to write it out.
> Indeed, I ask my ear training students to do just that ("A parallel  
> period with I-II-V-I over a T pedal, HC in m 4 and
> an AC In m 8").
> Another exercise I give them is to 'graph' an entire (small) piece I  
> play for them, from a Caplin-esque phrase-structure/
> sections/ deep middleground bassline perspective. Perhaps others do  
> that now, too--no one ever did it for me in
> DC (all the work was note-to-note foreground). I think it's vitally  
> important. Plus, it gives perfect-pitch people something to do.
>
> All for now.
>
> Best,
> Donna Doyle
> Queens College CUNY
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Ninov, Dimitar N wrote:
>
>> Derar Donna,
>>
>> Thank you for your message. I will address your points somewhat  
>> backwards.
>>
>> 1. Pedal point. The pedal point is neither a chord tone nor a non- 
>> chord tone; it is a compositional device, which (in its true  
>> nature) is a platform upon which different events happen. Anything  
>> between a long organ passage (polyphonic or harmonic or both) which  
>> unfolds over a "drone" in the organ's pedal and a short  
>> "orgelpunkt" upon which only three or sometimes even two chords  
>> occur, may happen in the realm of the pedal point. In this sense it  
>> not only does not defy by-functionality- it welcomes it, and this  
>> process is inevitable. This is why pedal point shall not be studied  
>> in the chapter of non-chord tones, but separately, after  
>> modulation. Exceptions: the explanation of pedal six-four chords  
>> and the cadential six-four, which relate to the concept of pedal  
>> point will be provided in the corresponding chapter with a link to  
>> the pedal point chapter.
>>
>> 2. Foreground versus background. You say:"I hear a pedal as a  
>> single function (e. g., as a dominant retrans). However, there are  
>> times when I don't want to
>> work hard, preferring to sit back and enjoy the scenery (the  
>> foreground). In this case, I would probably hear
>> activity over a pedal as a separate progression, but, nevertheless,  
>> over the prevailing bass.
>>
>> I am astonished; in fact you have to work harder when you need to  
>> look "behind" the pedal point to discern the harmonic functions  
>> which occur over it, not the other way around. The first thing  
>> thing that impresses your mind is the pedal point, not the  
>> functions which occur on top of it. You do not have to apply any  
>> effort to discern the function of the pedal point which is usually  
>> a tonic or a dominant. In this sense (which is not Schenkerian) the  
>> pedal point may be the surface, and what happens behind the scene  
>> may be the background. To give you an example:  Robert Schumann,  
>> Op. 68, No. 18 - "Schnitterliedchen". A parallel period which  
>> unfolds over a double tonic pedal point. What impresses us on the  
>> surface is the pedal point. But the formal and deeper harmonic  
>> analysis reveals a parallel period, which occurs over an implied  
>> progression I-II6-V7-I. All this happens over a tonic bass.
>>
>> Find it and play it for yourself. If this is a parallel period, it  
>> certainly has cadences, and these implied cadences are IAC and PAC.  
>> Notice: an implied IAC and PAC over a pedal point! Something which  
>> defies the assumption that a functional prolongation automatically  
>> negates cadence. (This is William Caplin's notion about which I  
>> have had long arguments with him). I wonder how Schenkerians would  
>> analyze that!
>>
>> According to your logic, when you relax, you will discover all the  
>> functional motion over a pedal point at once, but when you work  
>> harder, you will realize that the the bass states the tonic  
>> function. Is it not the other way around?
>>
>> The bass may usually "run" the show (such as in the cadential six- 
>> four, where the tonic function eventually gives way to the dominant  
>> in the bass) but there are cases which contain much more than that.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Dimitar
>>
>> Dr. Dimitar Ninov, Lecturer
>> School of Music
>> Texas State University
>> 601 University Drive
>> San Marcos, Texas 78666
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Donna Doyle [donnadoyle at att.net]
>> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 8:05 PM
>> To: Ninov, Dimitar N
>> Cc: smt-talk at lists.societymusictheory.org
>> Subject: Re: [Smt-talk] Nature and Labeling of the Cadential Six-Four
>>
>> Dear Dimitar,
>>
>> Re the pedal point (a technique quite different from the cad 6/4,  
>> of course, about which I have yet to read all
>> the recent commentary): How I hear a pedal point depends upon which  
>> level I'm listening to--the middle-
>> or the foreground. Generally, my attention is drawn to the  
>> bassline, as it gives me more information than the
>> top parts about the course of the piece. Listening to the bassline  
>> enables me to follow the piece on various
>> middleground levels. This takes focused, sustained attention and  
>> memory but is extremely satisfying. In this case,
>> I hear a pedal as a single function (e. g., as a dominant retrans).  
>> However, there are times when I don't want to
>> work hard, preferring to sit back and enjoy the scenery (the  
>> foreground). In this case, I would probably hear
>> activity over a pedal as a separate progression, but, nevertheless,  
>> over the prevailing bass. (I believe that,
>> because of the strength of the bass's overtones, true bi- 
>> functionality is difficult to achieve, if not impossible.
>> Scoring has a big influence. Don Sebesky, the film composer/ 
>> arranger, taught me this.) From another
>> perspective--traditionally, the pedal point is classified as a  
>> dissonance, like the passing tone, etc. There are times,
>> I think, when it is just plain dissonant with the upper part  
>> activity--when it fades in and out of agreement. This, too,
>> though, argues against bi-functionality, doesn't it?
>>
>> Generally, I tend to believe the bass runs the show. (Move your  
>> arms all you like, but if your feet stay glued
>> to the floor, you ain't dancin'.)
>>
>> Best,
>> Donna Doyle
>> Queens College CUNY
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Ninov, Dimitar N wrote:
>>
>> Dear Dona,
>>
>> You say: The cadential 6/4
>>
>> When the bass ascends the scale from T through S to D, it makes
>> little sense to me that, upon reaching the ^5,
>> the other voices would sound T above it. This reminds me of Terry
>> Southern's '60s satirical novelette, "Candy":
>> An American young woman travels to Tibet seeking a guru. Upon
>> reaching the top of his mountain and meeting
>> him face to face, she exclaims, "Daddy!"
>>
>> I have a question for you. When a passage unfolds over a pedal  
>> point (T or D) do you only hear one single function throughout? Do  
>> you not recognize bi-functionality per se?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dr. Dimitar Ninov, Lecturer
>> School of Music
>> Texas State University
>> 601 University Drive
>> San Marcos, Texas 78666
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